Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

[Arkdra]

I agree with what you are saying. Every time I see these threads however I find it ridiculous how people would kick other players in non-raid content for these things. Its more surprising given I just don't see this behavior it in game. In my experience this is just a forum thing that just wont die.

Unless someone in game actually professes how worthless they are in party chat, I will just give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Khaidal]

Theres the specific dungeon opinion. Cleric stance was changed to make DPS more accessible to more casual players. Ultimately Yoshi Ps goal is to get more players healing in casual content, and the way to do that is to make it easy for them. He never says that not DPSing is the correct way to play, he instead says that as a player he would never see it as a requirement, which especially resonates with how different the Japanese structure of play is to the west.

Edit for post limits

I think you and I are arguing the same thing, but wording it differently. DPSing as a healer is encouraged, meaning you should do it, but it's not "mandatory." To me, that word is what's causing so much trouble. Mandatory. Yoshi said healer dps is not "mandatory." Yet, nowhere did he said that healer dps is "discouraged." Just because yoshi said it's not mandatory doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I hope this clears some things up.

[Ayer2015]

The two are actually connected - Many people will frustratedly stay silent ingame in cases like this, but vent those frustrations on the forums, linkshells, discord or FC chat instead, because you gotta vent somehow. The more pent up frustrations, the louder the debate.

I know I do. If I get bad players, I'm bitchin' and moanin' for days, but none of that ends up in party chat. I just silently hate them and then go to the forums to make angry posts.

Maybe people should include tanks not using CDs and DPS being awful at doing damage as well in the conversation. People are probably so defensive because all the criticism is directed at the healers on here. There are plenty of bad players of every role.

[Aramina]

That's why I'm here at least... I want to play FF14 but have nothing to do in game

I have been levelling up a 4th alt (my 4th healer to keep on topic-ish) for no other reason than to pass time (since I can't think of any logical reason I would need a 4th character). Oh and posting here, obviously.

Maybe people should include tanks not using CDs and DPS being awful at doing damage as well in the conversation. People are probably so defensive because all the criticism is directed at the healers on here. There are plenty of bad players of every role.

This is true as well... I respond to these threads because.. well it is what is here. Believe me though I have a running tirade when someone is being poopy regardless of role.

[Semirhage]

Oh it's the Sylphies again.

[Arkdra]

Maybe people should include tanks not using CDs and DPS being awful at doing damage as well in the conversation. People are probably so defensive because all the criticism is directed at the healers on here. There are plenty of bad players of every role.

We have been. Consistently. Unlike bad dps and tanks though, nobody ever defends them being awful except for a couple of idiots who get shouted down immediately. For some reason only healers try to defend their lousy play.

Like come on, there are multiple threads across this forum from the terminally lazy about how healers only heal. Find me one thread where a dps tries to say that they are a single target only dps and they don't have to AE and you don't pay their sub so you aren't allowed to dictate their playstyle. If it even exists I guarantee you it will be 95% of the posters in there telling the op to git gud.

[Allyrion]

Harassment is the wrong word and implies that zero-dps healers are the victim, try toxicity and division. No matter what side you are on, both sides are accountable to the divide.

It is harassment though. If someone tells a healer in a dungeon NOT to dps that's harassment too. I'm using the term in the same way they talk about harassment with parsers. There would be no conflict if no one makes a complaint. Of course there's a significant difference in the complaint if the person doesn't fill their role requirements (which is needed for a clear) or if they perform efficiently (good dps or healer/tanks optimizing dps).

In most cases, one asking the healers to dps creates the conflict. Some reply rudely or sometimes there are healers who tell tanks not to speed run before anyone says anything, this creates conflict too. Whoever imposes their playstyle in a DF group beyond the bare minimum are the ones who harass.

This is coming from someone who likes to dps as a healer and min-max as a dps. I don't particularly blame others for the frustration of healers not dpsing or the healers who feel they shouldn't. I blame the content for have so much downtime. This is a design issue and the conflict is just a symptom. However, until it is fixed the ones who antagonize the issue aren't helping. That is, telling others that their playstyle is wrong mid-clear when there's no issue clear. If it's just advice that's fine and if they don't take it then that's fine too.

[Khemorex]

We have been. Consistently. Unlike bad dps and tanks though, nobody ever defends them being awful except for a couple of idiots who get shouted down immediately. For some reason only healers try to defend their lousy play.

Like come on, there are multiple threads across this forum from the terminally lazy about how healers only heal. Find me one thread where a dps tries to say that they are a single target only dps and they don't have to AE and you don't pay their sub so you aren't allowed to dictate their playstyle. If it even exists I guarantee you it will be 95% of the posters in there telling the op to git gud.

so basicly ur just jelous of a healer because they dont have to press as much buttons as you do? :P

[Ayer2015]

We have been. Consistently. Unlike bad dps and tanks though, nobody ever defends them being awful except for a couple of idiots who get shouted down immediately. For some reason only healers try to defend their lousy play.

Like come on, there are multiple threads across this forum from the terminally lazy about how healers only heal. Find me one thread where a dps tries to say that they are a single target only dps and they don't have to AE and you don't pay their sub so you aren't allowed to dictate their playstyle. If it even exists I guarantee you it will be 95% of the posters in there telling the op to git gud.

I can say that I come across more ice mages in game than healers that don't dps. Even more so, many tanks that don't use CDs.... that is very common.

[Arkdra]

I can say that I come across more ice mages in game than healers that don't dps. Even more so, many tanks that don't use CDs.... that is very common.

I find this mystifying, I've never seen an ice mage, but I do constantly run into honest healers in ldr. I definitely run into more terrible dps though, loosely defined as doing less than half my damage.