Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

[TheRealMadruck]

Today, Mr. Happy posted a video in which he describes a interview he did with Yoshi P during the reveal that occurred last month.

At the beginning of the video about the question in reference to his first question about his received answers, he stated that these answers were paraphrased and to not quote them but during 4:42 of the video seen here: https://youtu.be/5la_nyC5BO0?t=282
Mr. Happy states what Yoshi P wanted to make a clear point "I really want you to emphasize this to your viewers" then Yoshi P goes on to say "I firmly believe that it should not be mandatory(Healers DPSing) and we do not have the expectation for them to dps!"

Now, even if that was a paraphrase(which to anyone who views the video that it isn't) Yoshi P made it clear that if a person plays a healer....the game has been designed it for Healer DPS to be a OPTIONAL CHOICE! Not a required one.

Now we all know that you may vote kick players from content they qued for based on your view of "different playstyles" But let this be clear.....you are kicking these players not because of them not performing their roles correctly by not DPSing....but because you decided to dictate how you feel others should play!

I already know that I will getting alot of flak from this post by receiving insults, others demeaning this post a useless or null in void based on their opinions. But I want everyone in the community to know the facts.(hence the reason for the post) That yet again for both new players and Veteran...DPS IS NOT MANDATORY FOR HEALERS! To state otherwise is nothing more than your opinion....not fact or intended game design!

*UPDATE*
I want to state this to everyone. I didn't make this post to upset, disrespect or negate anyones views or opinions. But I have never seen so many players up front disrespect Yoshi P this way in the 3 years of playing this game on this account or my 1st account based solely on his statement on their intended design. I can understand disagreeing with him....but to insult him the way others have is pretty sad that it has come to that. I respect that you do not agree with this game design or statement as if anyone knows my own past on the forums I have had my own issues with SE.....but I humbly ask everyone to show respect to all others and to remind ourselves that we may have differing opinions.....but we are all here for fun.

[Hamada]

Here is another story that happened today (posted a summery in the horrible DF thread)

So here was my friend on ast, noticed whm in party so used the buff that puts shields on the heals. She noticed right away she needed to heal more then what is usually needed and adjusted but with extra stress and pressingbuttons a lot faster, as she tried to keep aoe balance on people while doing the extra healingand while doing DPS still. She did not like how the tanks was handling titan (and got cleaved a few times, while the tank did not migrate damage as much she liked.) So she was pretty much over stressed and even with all this, she outhealed the WHM with SHIELDS (not supposed to happen, regen healers tend to place top) while completely outclassing the other healer in DPS WHILE STILL KEEPING cards up AND! doing more DPS then some DPS. This is why people call heal only healers lazy. She was able not only to recognize all this during the moment but ended up giving a com to the highest DPS (before she was given a meter from someone else along with the healing meter, she com the highest dps) while suspecting she was healing much more then needed and MIGHT of did more healing then a regen based healing. She did not know the exact numbers, that would be impossible to do, but she was observant enough to tell who the highest DPS was, the fact the co healer was not doing much, and keeping tabs how the MT acted.

Saying you need to violate the tos to tell who has the highest DPS is a complete lie. You just can't recognize if everyone is good or if everyone is bad, and if everyone is good, there is no point in caring about the numbers anyway.

For that titen today the DPS went:
BRD>BRD>DRK> the shield using AST that was working overtime in healing> the second DRK> a 3rd BRD> the SMN that kept dying > LB> the WHM who got out healed by the sheild using AST.

Q3.) So...healers now have their DPS scale with Mind AND accuracy is no longer an issue. Do you think this will lead to players having even higher expectations of healers to contribute DPS to content since it is a much easier thing to do now?

A.) First of all, we do not expect healers to contribute to DPS. However we know a lot of the cutting edge players enjoy this aspect about the job and that those progressing in the raids early on use it help clear the fights. We decided to make it so that the idea was more approachable and less punishing so that if a player wants to try it, they aren’t sacrificing all of their healing capabilities to do so like they were with the old Cleric Stance. We didn’t like seeing healers doing entire dungeons in Cleric Stance, especially if they forget to switch back and heal!

That being said, and I want you to really reinforce this to your viewers, I firmly believe it shouldn’t be mandatory and we do NOT have the expectation of them to DPS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5la_...ature=youtu.be
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...10713408585203

Let us pass all DPS checks hitting 1 button every minute then. Fair is fair, I expect healers to put in effort like tanks and DPS. Why do healers get special treatment in doing much less effort and encouraged by the producer?

I disagree even if the producer says "it is ok to be lazy and push a button once a minute while we sometimes make DPS checks so strict, a 100 ping to clip double weaving = wipe.

Why not make a game where you can "relax" and pass anything by having all jobs press 1 button a minute?

I also have a choice to kick lazy players, what then?

[TheRealMadruck]

I thank you for letting us know about this. I play a more passive healing role and only DPS where I feel like we are lacking as the white mage of the party usually. That being said it is a combination of because healers are "healers" not DPS and also a bit of having to keep swapping to cleric stance. I have had instances of where I turn it on and then someone decides to not avoid an AoE or the boss crit the tank so I need to go back to heal but I can't since cleric stance is still on cooldown. Now with SB that won't be an issue anymore but I get the feeling I will still be in the habit of avoiding it when it isn't necessary. Which in this case thanks to Yoshi-P, won't ever be necessary. I shall give you no hate for I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

Yet again, you may disagree.....but that is your opinion....nothing more. Game design is game design. DPSing as a Healer was designed to be Optional...nothing more or less even if you do disagree with the man who runs the game!

[Shurrikhan]

Game design is game design. DPSing as a Healer was designed to be Optional...nothing more or less even if you do disagree with the man who runs the game!

Game design was intended* to be optional. That doesn't mean it was designed to be optional. Design is a result.

And I seriously have to wonder how far out of touch Yoshi is with design concepts if his team formed such a downtime-heavy design (again, the result) under that intention.
______________________________________________________________________


When I heal I expect myself to be active and to work towards achieving the shortest possible clear (keeping in mind where more than minimal healing may allow increased DPS from others, and where deaths are of course a massive blow to raid DPS). Anything less would be a double-standard. I would not allow my tanks not to use cooldowns, or to spam Flash, or my DPS not to dodge or to simply stop attacking. Why in the hell would I let myself not make use of my every global? Best use of each global may come with practice, but with a design that gives so much opportunity to DPS, or inversely so little opportunity to heal, why would I neglect half my potential output?

If a director is that of touch with his own designs, then so be it. Those who ignore him will simply perform better than those who can take that seriously.

Now, if SB had actually offered other means of making use of downtime, such as globals spent on support (derivative DPS) instead of direct attacks, this would hold water. But there are none. Every single support function is an oGCD, generally without any shared resource cost.

[Neophyte]

Game design was intended* to be optional. That doesn't mean it was designed to be optional. Design is a result.

And I seriously have to wonder how far out of touch Yoshi is with design concepts if his team formed such a downtime-heavy design (again, the result) under that intention.

This.

FF14 is a multiplayer game. "How to play" is decided by game design.

Would anyone not shoot with a medic in Call of Duty, if the producer or director says "Medics are intended to mostly heal, using your gun is optional" or would anyone not say "Well... stupid design to give them a gun and enough time to use it"?

[TheRealMadruck]

This.

FF14 is a multiplayer game. "How to play" is decided by game design.

Would anyone not shoot with a medic in Call of Duty, if the producer or director says "Medics are intended to mostly heal, using your gun is optional" or would anyone not say "Well... stupid design to give them a gun and enough time to use it"?

Yet again both of these points are mute. A healer heals...a tank tanks and a DPS is to DPS. Anything above that in your opinion, NOTHING ELSE! FF14 has a very specific way it was designed.....even if you want to ignore the facts about it. That is all that needs to be said...NEXT!

[Felis]

Game design was intended* to be optional. That doesn't mean it was designed to be optional. Design is a result.[/B]

But it is. Battles are balanced around healer's not doing dmg. That is the design. It is not only intended, but also executed.
Look how easy a dungeon become the moment a healer do dmg for that the dungeon was not balanced.

Using spells as a dps is optionnal 'cause i can smash mobs with my book.
Dps as a tank is optional since i can spam flash to hold aggro.

Having a brain activity on this forum is optionnal too apparently.

Doing heal spells as a DPS is optional.
Doing dmg spell/skills as a DPS is required

Doing dmg spells as a healer is optional
Doing healing spell as a healer is required

[Welsper59]

Game design was intended* to be optional. That doesn't mean it was designed to be optional. Design is a result.

And I seriously have to wonder how far out of touch Yoshi is with design concepts if his team formed such a downtime-heavy design (again, the result) under that intention.

Man... even though I end up reading a lot of Trump related news almost daily, this has got to be among the most illogical perspectives outside of that. Design is not a result. Design is synonymous with intent, in this context. Are you seriously separating the two? You seem to be literally arguing that design is a variable... that when they DESIGN a game, that means devs are leaving it up to random chance that the game even balances itself out, as though anything devs do is not intentional... like randomly slamming their face on their keyboard and claiming "I MADE A GAME!" Are you serious? I think the fact people agree with this sentiment is saying a lot about the mental state of people here.

It's not redundant to say "the result of a design", as in the result of their design of the game is that healers have the option to DPS. The result of the design of the game mandates healer DPS when players do content before the devs intend them to do it. For anyone unclear on that bolded part, I'm referring to occasions such as progression raiding, where you aren't going to wait until you are geared in new tiers (perhaps through tomes), as was intended by design. Anything before that is optional, hence why Yoshi-P repeatedly states healer DPS is never part of their expectations when it comes to clearing content.

I, as well as many others (you included, it would seem), heavily encourage the idea of healers helping to DPS, but that's pretty much where our agreements end. I see the difference between optional and mandatory in this context, whereas many others only see mandatory. Logically, I'm fairly certain my outlook is the only one not driven by some made up assumption and total denial of fact (facts which have been repeatedly stated and clarified by situation by the director/producer himself). There is "optimal" which could be mistakenly seen when one reads "optional", since there's the "opti" part, but they mean different things that still relate to this situation. Maybe that's the confusion... people don't read "optional", because they're reading it as "optimal", as though Yoshi-P and people like myself are telling others that there is no optimal way to play.

[Gr1mwolf]

Yet again, you may disagree.....but that is your opinion....nothing more. Game design is game design. DPSing as a Healer was designed to be Optional...nothing more or less even if you do disagree with the man who runs the game!

You can't just refute people by saying "Nuh uh, the developer said so!" And ignore any points people try to make. The fact is that players are the ones in control of this issue you have, and bringing daddy into the conversation won't force anyone's hand.

[Duelle]

I've said it before, but Yoshida is trying to please everyone when it comes to the thing with healers, but this is one of those cases where trying to please everyone will please no one in the end.

Assuming things get worse in terms of people abusing each other over whether healers DPS or not, the next step would be to force healers to play within their paradigm. That means stuff in dungeons, trials, story mode raids and savage raids hitting harder, debuffs that need to be removed being common-place, and MP conservation being a thing for healers. Granted, I believe we should already be going in that direction since 3.0, but better late than never.