Low level dungeons need a nerf? [Discussion]

[SendohJin]

its called big pulls u can get out of there in 15 to 20 mins no nerfs needed

They nerfed AOEs and DPS all around, level capped dungeons will take longer than they used to.

[bswpayton]

They nerfed AOEs and DPS all around, level capped dungeons will take longer than they used to.

Im still gona big pull regardless I refuse to pull three adds at a time not gona happen thats from level 15 dungeon on up , copperbell, tama tara all of them can be six adds and up, and can be finished in 20 mins. To me tanks that pull three adds at a time in there are wasting peoples time but Id never pull adds as anything but a tank but u are clearly built to handle more than three adds in any content. The only dungeon I only big pull sometimes in is qarn because of the bees and all dps dont kill them in time, are maybe if adds put a vulnerability duff on u with weakness. But its no reason at all to ever only pull three adds at time , in this game and one is just really sad how some tanks do this as well I just dont understand but I respect it grudgingly I guess.

[Vidu]

Im still gona big pull regardless I refuse to pull three adds at a time not gona happen thats from level 15 dungeon on up , copperbell, tama tara all of them can be six adds and up, and can be finished in 20 mins.

You will pull multiple groups even when your party doesnt has any AoE at their hands? You do realise that thats a very bad way to play, right? The healer will have to heal you more, ergo less time to dps - and if the dps cant burn down a whole lot of them quickly (because no AoE) you gain absolutly nothing. If the dps in your party can only do single target, whats the point in doubling the single targets?
(To back this up a bit: puglist get their first AoE on 26; SMN/Scholar gets their actual AoE-skill Bane on level 30; ninja and dragoon dont have an AoE before 42 - so everyone except BLM, bard and mcn arent really great with AoE until at least Haukke)
Blindly doing large pulls without being aware of your party composition makes you a pretty bad tank, not a good one.

[bswpayton]

You will pull multiple groups even when your party doesnt has any AoE at their hands? You do realise that thats a very bad way to play, right? The healer will have to heal you more, ergo less time to dps - and if the dps cant burn down a whole lot of them quickly (because no AoE) you gain absolutly nothing. If the dps in your party can only do single .

I play all jobs Im very well aware of , party comp , but on drk its fairly easy to do these pulls and warrior is similar to im not spending 30 mins in shasaha normal when I dont have to. nor copper bell the adds die so fast in there its a waste to do three add pulls. And now healers dont even have any aoe anyway sense blizzard 2 is removed from cross role so might as well give them something to do.

Nobody complains if anything people are actually relieved I didnt waste an extra ten mins of their time by doing baby pulls in low level dungeons. All the dungeons below the spider one whatever u call it can be done in 15- 17 mins. And all the rest of the level dungeons can be done in 20 although Qarn, DD, Stone Vigil, And Aurum vale can lag sometimes based on people in ur party but they can all be in 20 mins as well.

Its no need to spend 30 mins in a dungeon if no wipes have happened just because the tank want big pull when they have the toolsets to do it. Pali is the only tank with no aoe, in low level content warrior and drk can easily out dps many dps in low level dungeons with aoe spam so I dont see the problem here these are lowbie dungeons that are some of the easiest content in the game. As a Drk you can easily pull every single add after the green slim up to the boss in copperbell witch is about 9 or 11 adds with ease I dont really understand where ur coming from on this one. I disagree with op and just simply stated that you can easily haste these dungeons by from just doing large pulls as a tank and its no need for a nerf.

[Vidu]

I play all jobs Im very well aware of , party comp , but on drk its fairly easy to do these pulls and warrior is similar to im not spending 30 mins in shasaha normal when I dont have to. nor copper bell the adds die so fast in there its a waste to do three add pulls. And now healers dont even have any aoe anyway sense blizzard 2 is removed from cross role so might as well give them something to do.

When did I say anything about healers needing an AoE? The whole point is: If your party doesnt has decent AoE and you do a large pull, it actually requires the healer to pay attention to healing - in dungeons that are so easy that its not needed at all. As a scholar I never leave Cleric Stance once in any dungeon prior to Brayflox and am essiantially a third dps - speeds dungeons up quite a bit. I cant do that if a tank goes for a large pull though, so unless there is good AoE that kills a lot of mob at once, its basically the loss of a Dps.
The benefit of large pulls is obviously that more mobs are taking damage from the same attack (AoEs) - if there is no such thing as decent AoE present in your party and everyone has to focus one mob at a time anyways, you gain nothing from a large pull, because, again: your dps can only attack one mob at a time. Wether the group of mobs contains 3 or 6 mobs doesnt matter when your two melees can only burn on at a time - it does matter to your healer wether they have to heal through 3 mobs (and have time to dps) or 6 mobs (less or no time to dps, depending on dungeon and gear of the tank).

And btw... I did a TamTara-run earlier. Took about 17 minutes. Two new people, no big pulls, no AoEs at our disposal, but a healer (me) constantly dps'ing - lets not pretend that its (only) big pulls that speed up a dungeon. Sometimes normal pulls are the smart move - specially when there is no AoE present.

[bswpayton]

When did I say anything about healers needing an AoE? The whole point is: If your party doesnt has decent AoE and you do a large pull, it actually requires the healer to pay attention to healing - in dungeons that are so easy that its not needed at all. As a scholar I never leave Cleric Stance once in any dungeon prior to Brayflox and am essiantially

But Ive mention yes thats true I do the samething on my scholar as well , but if the tank is doing enough aoe then I dont see the issue here. Unleash is an aoe overpower is an aoe, so on a drk u can make up for the lack of party aoe. Same thing for the warrior , overpower is more than enough in a lowbie dungeon to make up for some dps not having any aoe. And we both know alot of healers simply just dont dps even in low level dungeons so if alll they are gona do is spam cure 1 then I will give them something to heal.

I think both methods work but I just find it very boring to pull two adds at a time when you can pull six or seven at a time. And until someone states that its an issue I will continue to do so when I get in a dungeon its how fast can I get out of here and big pulls have always helped me out, when Im healing and a tank does 3 add pulls even when Im dpsing it always seems to take 30 mins still and is pretty boring. But hopefully with cleric changing it will help these dungeons go by faster than ever heres to keeping those fingers crossed

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Im still gona big pull regardless

And that's how you kill your party. A good tank assesses the capabilities of his party and pulls proportionally to what they can handle.

On topic: the point of leveling dungeons posing a challenge is to provide an environment from which to gradually learn what you have and how to use it. Not much to learn at max level, thus things tend to go more quickly, but don't pretend you didn't have to brick your way up like others did. If you have to run a leveling dungeon and get synced down, don't complain or cry for nerfs. That just speaks ill of your capabilities as a maxed level player.

It's not that low level dungeons need a nerf - more that "end game" dungeons (ie level capped tomestone dungeons) need a rather large buff in difficulty.

If people's concern is that farming tomes will end up taking longer - then scale tome rewards up with the difficulty.

Over the past number of expert roulette cycles, the dungeons have progressively become easier and easier.

Man I miss the original Amdapor Keep and Pharos Sirius for that reason.