Low level dungeons need a nerf? [Discussion]

[CosmicKirby]

They did increase the amount of exp leveling dungeons offer.
And even without that: No, they dont need a nerf. Specially no in the form of lowering anyones HP - because THAT would have a negative impact, excatly the one that PotD already has: if mobs dont have high enough HP and die to fast, no one can properly learn their rotation and how to play their class. PotD mob are currently often dying before anyone was able to decently finish a full rotation. And not everyone is going to practice at a dummy to learn how to play their class at level 60/70.

Can we please stop asking for an already easy process in an easy game to get further nerfed?

There is nothing in leveling dungeons that necessitates or even properly rewards using an optimal or 'correct' rotation or playstyle. Rather, such an incredibly large degree of poor play is required until the game pushes back hard enough for a player to notice and consider changes to their playstyle/tactics.

While nerfing it from what it is now won't help the situation, the current situation doesn't help them learn much either. The only challenges in the game that properly address gameplay mechanics are boss fights, and those challenges only really start to appear around level 50, (with some minor ramp up starting around level 40). In the very least, nerfing trash mobs to help clear times be comparable to POTD, could be an option to help solve the current preference, that's likely to skew even more heavily come Stormblood.

Much less, it is VERY MUCH worth considering how many players are going to buy a jump potion, and skip lower level dungeons entirely. In which case, your defense of keeping them as is becomes superfluous, as they'll only set foot in these dungeons well after encountering more difficult challenges.

[bswpayton]

There is nothing in leveling dungeons that necessitates or even properly rewards using an optimal or 'correct' rotation or playstyle. Rather, such an incredibly

Its a bit of jumping the gun to assume that everyones just gona buy a jump potion because really , the only point in skipping the story is if u plan to raid. If you do not plan to raid then theres zero reason to skip, many people take their sweet time with the story because they really have no endgame goals. If you have no endgame goals then a jump potion would be a waste of money. The dungeons are fine as is, I blame the tanks for doing baby pulls for making some of these dungeons take longer than they should. A three add pull is a waste of time I dont care what dungeon ur doing if all they do is autoattacks.

[Vidu]

I play all jobs Im very well aware of , party comp , but on drk its fairly easy to do these pulls and warrior is similar to im not spending 30 mins in shasaha normal when I dont have to. nor copper bell the adds die so fast in there its a waste to do three add pulls. And now healers dont even have any aoe anyway sense blizzard 2 is removed from cross role so might as well give them something to do.

When did I say anything about healers needing an AoE? The whole point is: If your party doesnt has decent AoE and you do a large pull, it actually requires the healer to pay attention to healing - in dungeons that are so easy that its not needed at all. As a scholar I never leave Cleric Stance once in any dungeon prior to Brayflox and am essiantially a third dps - speeds dungeons up quite a bit. I cant do that if a tank goes for a large pull though, so unless there is good AoE that kills a lot of mob at once, its basically the loss of a Dps.
The benefit of large pulls is obviously that more mobs are taking damage from the same attack (AoEs) - if there is no such thing as decent AoE present in your party and everyone has to focus one mob at a time anyways, you gain nothing from a large pull, because, again: your dps can only attack one mob at a time. Wether the group of mobs contains 3 or 6 mobs doesnt matter when your two melees can only burn on at a time - it does matter to your healer wether they have to heal through 3 mobs (and have time to dps) or 6 mobs (less or no time to dps, depending on dungeon and gear of the tank).

And btw... I did a TamTara-run earlier. Took about 17 minutes. Two new people, no big pulls, no AoEs at our disposal, but a healer (me) constantly dps'ing - lets not pretend that its (only) big pulls that speed up a dungeon. Sometimes normal pulls are the smart move - specially when there is no AoE present.

[Khaoticsuccubus]

There is nothing in leveling dungeons that necessitates or even properly rewards using an optimal or 'correct' rotation or playstyle. Rather, such an incredibly large degree of poor play is required until the game pushes back hard enough for a player to notice and consider changes to their playstyle/tactics.

While nerfing it from what it is now won't help the situation, the current situation doesn't help them learn much either. The only challenges in the game that properly address gameplay mechanics are boss fights, and those challenges only really start to appear around level 50, (with some minor ramp up starting around level 40). In the very least, nerfing trash mobs to help clear times be comparable to POTD, could be an option to help solve the current preference, that's likely to skew even more heavily come Stormblood.

Much less, it is VERY MUCH worth considering how many players are going to buy a jump potion, and skip lower level dungeons entirely. In which case, your defense of keeping them as is becomes superfluous, as they'll only set foot in these dungeons well after encountering more difficult challenges.

Yeah no, personally I'd rather they buff them. Even as boring as they are atm I'd rather not see old leveling dungeons go the way WoW's did. That is, being able to ignore your party all together and run off to solo the dungeon by yourself (I am guilty of this ;P).

When did I say anything about healers needing an AoE? The whole point is: If your party doesnt has decent AoE and you do a large pull, it actually requires the healer to pay attention to healing - in dungeons that are so easy that its not needed at all. As a scholar I never leave Cleric Stance once in any dungeon prior to Brayflox and am essiantially a third dps - speeds dungeons up quite a bit. I cant do that if a tank goes for a large pull though, so unless there is good AoE that kills a lot of mob at once, its basically the loss of a Dps.
The benefit of large pulls is obviously that more mobs are taking damage from the same attack (AoEs) - if there is no such thing as decent AoE present in your party and everyone has to focus one mob at a time anyways, you gain nothing from a large pull, because, again: your dps can only attack one mob at a time. Wether the group of mobs contains 3 or 6 mobs doesnt matter when your two melees can only burn on at a time - it does matter to your healer wether they have to heal through 3 mobs (and have time to dps) or 6 mobs (less or no time to dps, depending on dungeon and gear of the tank).

And btw... I did a TamTara-run earlier. Took about 17 minutes. Two new people, no big pulls, no AoEs at our disposal, but a healer (me) constantly dps'ing - lets not pretend that its (only) big pulls that speed up a dungeon. Sometimes normal pulls are the smart move - specially when there is no AoE present.

To add on to this, in most lowbie dungeons unless you have a blm/brd/mch in the group, spamming your tank aoe like overpower is just going to deplete your tp long before anythings dead. Iirc, only warrior has anyway to restore tp and that's after 50.

[bswpayton]

When did I say anything about healers needing an AoE? The whole point is: If your party doesnt has decent AoE and you do a large pull, it actually requires the healer to pay attention to healing - in dungeons that are so easy that its not needed at all. As a scholar I never leave Cleric Stance once in any dungeon prior to Brayflox and am essiantially

But Ive mention yes thats true I do the samething on my scholar as well , but if the tank is doing enough aoe then I dont see the issue here. Unleash is an aoe overpower is an aoe, so on a drk u can make up for the lack of party aoe. Same thing for the warrior , overpower is more than enough in a lowbie dungeon to make up for some dps not having any aoe. And we both know alot of healers simply just dont dps even in low level dungeons so if alll they are gona do is spam cure 1 then I will give them something to heal.

I think both methods work but I just find it very boring to pull two adds at a time when you can pull six or seven at a time. And until someone states that its an issue I will continue to do so when I get in a dungeon its how fast can I get out of here and big pulls have always helped me out, when Im healing and a tank does 3 add pulls even when Im dpsing it always seems to take 30 mins still and is pretty boring. But hopefully with cleric changing it will help these dungeons go by faster than ever heres to keeping those fingers crossed

[Venjenz]

The lower level dungeons teach some decent mechanics. Ranged trash that won't move with pulls, DoTs that need dispelled, bosses with weird mechanics at different stages of the fight, etc. Unlike the slopfest going on in PotD, you can sorta kinda learn to play your class/job in lower level dungeons, so making them easier does not much except further dumb down and erode the current overall skill level of the playerbase.

Not sure anyone really wants that.

[Rita1989]

I think it's more the fact that you don't often have ideal gear for the dungeon , many jobs don't have AoE at low levels and you often have new players.

I had a 15 minute Copper Bell the other day so it is possible to run it really fast if you get the right party.

[Altena]

I think the exact opposite.

It's not that low level dungeons need a nerf - more that "end game" dungeons (ie level capped tomestone dungeons) need a rather large buff in difficulty.

If people's concern is that farming tomes will end up taking longer - then scale tome rewards up with the difficulty.

Over the past number of expert roulette cycles, the dungeons have progressively become easier and easier.
There are problems when you can easily pull every mob up until the next gate/wall and burn everything down at ease. Stuff should be quite a bit more threatening than they currently are.

That would fix the "Healers should DPS" argument. Make healing more intensive.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Im still gona big pull regardless

And that's how you kill your party. A good tank assesses the capabilities of his party and pulls proportionally to what they can handle.

On topic: the point of leveling dungeons posing a challenge is to provide an environment from which to gradually learn what you have and how to use it. Not much to learn at max level, thus things tend to go more quickly, but don't pretend you didn't have to brick your way up like others did. If you have to run a leveling dungeon and get synced down, don't complain or cry for nerfs. That just speaks ill of your capabilities as a maxed level player.

It's not that low level dungeons need a nerf - more that "end game" dungeons (ie level capped tomestone dungeons) need a rather large buff in difficulty.

If people's concern is that farming tomes will end up taking longer - then scale tome rewards up with the difficulty.

Over the past number of expert roulette cycles, the dungeons have progressively become easier and easier.

Man I miss the original Amdapor Keep and Pharos Sirius for that reason.

[Dameron]

>obviously stupid suggestion
>OP only has 2 posts
>one of the tags is "dragoon sucks"

This is another troll thread isn't it?