Thread: Put MNK 4.0 suggestions here

Four versions:

Version 1 - Consolidated Weaponskills (only the 3 available are shown; Perfect Balance makes Form Shift oGCD and shortens its animation time to nearly nothing) and Standard Mechanics.

Version 2 - Open Weaponskills (gains benefits per "cycle" each time all three stances are used, the frequency of which will be important even when not edging GL duration, but skills can now be used for nearly full effect out of order, giving a true choice of 9 weaponskills at all times) and Standard Mechanics.

Version 3 - Consolidated Weaponskills and Analog Resource (dealing, buffing, absorbing, and healing damage converts mana into Chakra, which can be spent on additional skills varying from precise raid support to increased personal DPS). Tremendous Versatility.

Version 4 - Open Weaponskills and Analog Resource.

In all versions:

• TP Refresh now generates 50 TP per GCD. Monk TP costs increased to compensate. They now have the same relative TP regeneration as previous when at 0 bonus Skill Speed, but that regeneration increases as Skill Speed does, removing its negative effect on regeneration.
• Tornado Kick potency has been increased to a value capable of allowing it to be viably (optimally if in need of TP) used at the end of a maximized Internal Release even without use of Perfect Balance to quickly regenerate stacks. Cooldown set to 10 seconds to prevent two uses per Perfect Balance, which would otherwise imbalance its regular usage, while still allowing rotational use shortly before the end of a fight.
• Riddle of Earth removed. Tornado Kick and Form Shift are already sufficient mechanics for handling downtime. Moreover, of all current trials and raids, only about a tenth actually offer a triggering attack during downtime that could reset and thereby maintain GL3 via RoE without taking unnecessary damage, making it generally a bloated and ineffective skill in terms of handling the GL mechanic. (One can also argue that any skill made necessary just to handle a given mechanic during a specific portion of a fight would better fill its function through revision of the fight (e.g. keeping downtime to GL-duration-minus-1-seconds or less) or mechanic itself.) It also requires that one is first hit in order to provide mitigation, making it useful only against sequential attacks, of which DPS are hit only when purposely taking threat or being cleaved. That effect, too, is raid-ineffective.
• Riddle of Fire removed. More interesting ways of varying gameplay than merely couching one's strikes for 20s per 90s by reducing attack rate to increase damage (shifting percentile power from weaponskills to abilities, increasing effective per-execute potency deviation, and adding ~18% net DPS) as an obligatory, rotationally unheld CD have been added in its place. (See Prime Conflict below, which allows control of Light and Dark Chakra.)
• Meditation recast time has been reduced to 50% GCD (e.g. 1.25s base, 1s at a 2.00 GCD with GL).
• Form Shift has been reduced to 67% of a GCD. Animation has been revised.
• Touch of Death remains (revised heavily in the Analog Resource version), and Double Tap (Haymaker's double-kick but increased to 180 potency and given triple slow duration on dodge rather than requiring a dodge generally) effectively replaces Fracture/Impulse Drive as the second stanceless skill. This thereby retains control over cycling under regular weaponskill mechanics where their removal would have removed all control over duration sync.
• Monk stances are now more significant, varying the effects of Internal Release, Steel Peak, Shoulder Tackle, Elixir Field, and Howling Fist, and generating additional mechanical benefits over use. Their cooldown has been reduced to 50% GCD, and their animation time has been decreased.
• Perfect Balance has been reduced to a 90-second cooldown, syncing with PB every other PB.
• Deep Meditation has been removed. Its only contribution to gameplay was to devalue True Strike and Tornado Kick during IR-PB overlap, by making Bootshine consistently the superior choice, and to add the maintenance concept of avoiding overcap of Chakra, thereby increasing the latency opportunity cost of animation lock on weaponskills and oGCDs near to any Chakra cap by potentially wasting Chakra stacks to be gained before TFC could be cast. Apart from the last, which is alike in simultaneous annoyance and slightly increased skill-cap to high Rain of Blood procs in the middle of rotational oGCD spending (e.g. on Blunt, Repel, Sidewinder, Flaming Arrow, and Battle Voice), these are primarily gameplay-diminishing changes that follow the opposite of alleged goals for 4.0 (by increasing skill-gap, introducing artificial difficulty, increasing opportunity cost from latency, reducing output control, and reducing possible options / diminishing internal balance).
• In its place, Monk gains the trait Prime Conflict (tbr). In Heavensward, the Monk was able to benefit from both Light and Dark Chakra, but made use of them in the same fashion. In Stormsblood, the Monk can pick and choose which it wishes to advance, changing effects. In the Standard Mechanics system: upon learning the trait, Coeurl skills also generate "Motes of Aether" extractable or destructable from the targets of those skills. Twin Snakes absorbs these, temporarily increasing attack power by a further amount and generating Light Chakra, while the revised One-Ilm Punch implodes these for direct damage and the generation of Dark Chakra. In the Analog resource system, this allows one to convert mana into either Light or Dark Chakra.
• Between level 62 and 70, additional means of making use of these two Chakra forms, by priority or synergy, are added with the purpose of increasing internal balance and gameplay depth (i.e. creating more, distinct tactical options). I believe these added options to be a deeper, more fluid, and more satisfying way to extend and improve upon previous Monk gameplay than Deep Meditation and Riddle of Fire.

Weaponskill Consolidation:

The Monk uses a single slot for stanced skills until the addition of a second skill in any one stance, at which point a second is added (e.g. upon the addition of Twin Snakes at level 18). Upon gaining the third (e.g. Rockbreaker), a third slot is added. In short, the Monk sees only as many choices as are actually available.

By default, the first slot will cycle through the first skill gained in each stance—Bootshine, True Strike, and Snap Punch—the second the second of each—Arm, Twin, and Demolish—and the third the third of each—Dragon, One-Ilm, and Rockbreaker.
However, these may be rearranged in any fashion.
I'd personally make these Dragon, Twin, and Demolish [1]; Boot, True, and Snap [2]; and Arm, One-Ilm, and Rockbreaker [3].
By Form that would be: {Opo-opo} Dragon [1], Boot [2], Arm [3]; {Raptor} Twin [1], True [2], One-Ilm [3]; {Coeurl} Demolish [1], Snap [2], Rockbreaker [3].

Under this system, Form Shift is moved to level 46 and a much-improved variant of Mantra to 52. Perfect Balance now removes the recast cost and uses an alternate, far shorter animation for Form Shift for 12 seconds, to a maximum of 5 weaponskills cast (or simply for 10 seconds, forgoing the slight QoL improvement). Stance changes under this effect are made client-side as with Ninja Mudras, and as instantly as the generation of Greased Lightning (at the start of cast). Players should be capable of lossless double-weaving at as low as a 1.5 GCD.

Open Weaponskills:

In this system, all 9 weapon skills are open to the Monk at all times. The value of Dragon Kick, Twin Snakes, and Demolish even while already applied have been increased by adjusting their effects. One-Ilm Punch has been revised to see greater usability both after and before the advent of the level 62 Prime Conflict trait. In the Standard Mechanics system, Form lockouts are instead replaced with an uninterruptible combo bonus, of sorts, which increases effectiveness (direct potency, DoT potency, and effect duration) by 33% and allowing for the generation of Greased Lightning. Coeurl skills will generate Greased Lightning only if embonused (by Raptor form having been used in the last 10 seconds, while under the bonus of an Opo-opo form having been used in the last 10 seconds). At its base, the resultant gameplay works as normal except that you can throw in skills of the wrong Form (which are essentially just combo tiers) at will for a far lesser penalty than faced by other classes. However, specific added bonuses woven into Fists of Fire, Earth, and Wind can make certain departures from standard cycles optimal even in single-target, on-modular rotation. Optimal rotation becomes far more complex and situational, dependent on intuitive understanding of the fight and one's uptime across targets rather than being broadly set or copy-able verbatim.

Standard Mechanics:

Chakra and Greased Lightning still work in relatively few, distinct steps as per their current iterations.

Analog Resource:

Chakra and Greased Lightning instead work in more numerous, granular steps. Chakra works as an analog resource (converting mana into Chakra) shared between more functions than merely TFC and Purification, making it a more intergral part of gameplay and giving the Monk access to extreme amounts of versatility without overpowering its combined output.

[To be continued...]

(I'm french, so sorry for my bad english)

Here all the change / idea I have for the monk. 4,0 isn't out wet so it's a lot of speculation because we don't know the final product.

All the change / idea aren't final and I will try to not talk about number. If my monk look to powerful, all can be change ! For me, the problem with monk isn't global DPS (the nerf of some skill isn't the most inportant because you can change it), but the concept of the job who is know wrong execute and contradictory. The monk don't have is own identity !

I will come back and judge the job after being Level 70 with some hour in my hand !

Change

Touch of Death :*This skill have to stay. If not, they should make some adjustment to Demolish

Arm Of The Destroyer :*The effect (Silence) should not depend of the form, this skill is to much situational because of this. It should be an oGCD with a short reset. But, for compensate the short reset the skill should become a single target without damage.

Demolish :*For conpensate the lost of Touch of death and Fracture, they shoul buff that skill.

Fists of Wind :*Currently this stance is only use for moving faster in town. This stance should reduce weaponskill cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay plus increases movement speed, to conpensate the lost of DPS du to not being in Fist of Fire. Fist of Wind must become an alternative to Fist of Fire : Power Mode or Speed Mode ! The two stances will give the opportunity to have two kind of monks, but the global DPS have to stay the same between these two. The Fire have to be more powerful, but slower. The wind have to be faster, but weaker and the TP should be reduce. The monk's skills should have different effect because of the stance (like they made for Shoulder Tackle). The difference should be more like QoL and playstyle but the two stance should be viable for combat ! Fist of Earth must be more défensive / support. So Fist of Fire = Power Mode / Fist of Wind = Speed Mode / Fist of Earth = Defense Mode.

One Ilm Punch :*The skill should be remove to let Steel Peak do the Stun. Like Arm of the Destroyer, this skill is to much situational because of form. With the adjustment of Arm of the Destroyer the all thing will be more logic. For not becoming a clone of Leg Sweep who is now a cross role, Steel Peak should have an advantage and keep the damage.

Dragon Kick :*To give monk a better group utility, the skill should reduce the target physical resistance !

Perfect Balance :*The reset should be reduce. 30s min or 60s max. (Maybe 30 with Fist of Wind and 60 with Fist of Fire).*

Tornado Kick :*The potency should be buff. The cost (3 Stack of GL) is too hisgh for the potency and the skill is to much situational. And the new skill Riddle of Earth kill the utility of Tornado Kick in Boss jump phase (keeping stack is more OP). Thats why they should reduce the reset of Perfect Balance because this will grant us the possibilty to make more Tornado Kick (if Perfect Balance resent is good, we don't need buff potency for Tornado Kick. Perfect Balance is needed for the usage of Tornado Kick (it's faster to gain your 3 stack).

Deep Méditation :*It's hard to judge because we only have the tool type. 30% look per critical hit seem a little low. Maybe too much RNG (RNG with crit + RNG of 30%). I'll wait until Stormblood.

Riddle Of Earth :*The skill should give 3 stack of GL and not only refresh GL. This skill kill Tornado Kick usage in boss jump phase because it's more OP to keep your 3 stack of GL. If the potency of Tornado Kick isn't buff, Riddle of Earth have to give 3 GL stacks, because that give you the opportunity to keep using Tornado Kick and then have 3 stack again. Riddle can also give the 3 stacks of GL without being hit, but this would kill Perfect Balance.

Shoulder Tackle (Wind) :* This skill will be useful, only if Fist of Wind is viable in combat !

Shoulder Tackle (Earth) :*This skill like Fist of Earth should be a defensive skill. It would be interesting if we were able to buff to a partner by using Earth Shoulder Tackles. Dash and apply a buff on a ally who grant him a shield or something like cover or maybe heal him (this one can be cool with mantra). With this kind of skill the Fist of Earth can become more defensive / support and give monk some new group utility.

Riddle Of Fire : This skill is here only for conpensate the lost of Blood for Blood. This skill is in contradiction with the design of the monk (because of the lost of the speed) ; the fastest DPS. This skill will be very different with the modifications of the fists.

Brotherhood :*Like Deep Meditation, it's hard to judge without playing. The skill look more RNG than Deep Meditation because of an other level of RNG ; the team. With this skill, monk is to much team dependent. Also, the fact that the monk don't have the 5% buff is strange. I'll wait until Stormblood.

The Concept of (my) Monk

Like I said in the change of Fist of Wind, this stance have to be an alternative to Fist of Fire.
The idea behind this (new) monk is having a 2 in 1 job or maybe 3 in 1. I have in mind something like "choose your monk", and the two stance have to stay viable in combat. The concept will give to the monk something unique, becoming the only job with two combat mode. The stance dance will still be possible, but the change will be more about the playstyle and will change the skills. It's not some kind of a buff ! It's not like a tank who change stance because when a tank change he change his role (MT or OT / Tank or DPS). The idea is to make two kind of monk player some who play fire style and some who play wind style.

A good exemple is the 3.0 Bard
Imagine a bard with minuet (casting) and a Bard without (festest), but the two are viable in combat ! That wasn't the case because without minuet the DPS of bard was too low !

Here an example from an other video game ; Mortal Kombat. When you choose Scorpion, you have to choose a style / variation (Ninjutsu / Hellfire / Inferno). The variation have things in common, some effect change and new move are add. The result is that one character have 3 different gameplay, but without havind 3 completely new moveset.

The Fist of Earth on the other hand will still be more support / defensive and will never be viable in combat keeping is place of an situational stance.

So, monk will be a 2 in 1 job with a situational defensive stance !

The dev idea about making fists more important isn't bad, but it's poorly executed because Fist of Wind base is useless. The idea behind making variation of the skill because of the stance is good too, but not enouth.

The Fists

Fists of Earth :*Reduces damage taken. Cannot be used with Fists of Fire or Fists of Wind, and shares recast timer with both. Effect ends upon reuse.

Fists of Wind :*Increases movement speed. Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time and auto-attack delay. Reduce TP cost. Cannot be used with Fists of Earth or Fists of Fire, and shares recast timer with both. Effect ends upon reuse. Note : It may be possible that with all the speed boost the GCD is too fast, making positioning too hard. It may be good to cancel the positiong with Fists of Wind. That would make the speed playstyle more good and will make a higher difference between Fire and Wind.

Fists of Fire :*Increases damage dealt. Cannot be used with Fists of Earth or Fists of Wind, and shares recast timer with both. Effect ends upon reuse.

Skill variation

(These are exemple of some)


Shoulder Tackle

Earth : Rushes target and increases the physical and magic defense of target and yours.

Or

Earth : Rushes target and take all physical and magical damage intended for another party member. Can only be used when member is closer than 10 yalms.

Or

Earth : Rushes target and Restores target's HP and yours.

Wind : Rushes target and delivers an attack. You can do it twice. (We should have a timer between the time, but I don't know how long)

Fire : Rushes target and delivers an attack. (This one is stronger).

Or

Fire : Rushes target and delivers an attack. Damage over time.


Mantra


Earth : Increases HP recovery via curing magic by 20 % for self and nearby party members.

Wind : Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay for self and nearby party members.

Fire : Increases damage dealt for self and nearby party members.

Or

Fire : Increases critical hit rate of self and nearby party members


Riddle of


Earth : Reduces damage taken. Grant you Greased Lightning III when hit.

Wind : Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay

Fire : Increases damage dealt.


Tornado Kick


Wind : Delivers an attack. Loose one stack of Greased Lightning.

Fire : Delivers an attack. Can only be used when under the effect of Greased Lightning III. Effect fades upon execution.

Other Idea

The Fists of Wind can also reduce the cost of Purification and The Forbidden Chakra. We can also buff the RNG of Brotherhood and Deep Meditation.

The time of DoT like Demolish, buff and debuff can also be different between Fire and Wind stance.

A 4th move can be add on the combo, this one can also be unique with the stance. I think the 4th move should not be a GCD, because it maybe cause some problem for refreshing GL. An oGCD who proc after the execution of Snap Punch, Demolish or Rockbreaker. The skill will have a reset to prevent spam with Perfect Balance. The 4th move with Fire should have more potency but proc lees often (every 6 GCD = 2 combos) and the Wind one will should be weaker but more regular (every 3 GCD = 1 combo).

I said nothing about that but we can also change the GL stack with the stance :
Earth : One stack grant more defense (Yellow lightning in HUB)
Wind : One stack grant more speed (Blue lightning in HUB)
Fire : One stack grant more attack (Red lightning in HUB)

Conclusion

Like I said previously, I tried to not talk about potency and purcentage, because I don't want to put strange number. It's very logic that the skills under Fire are stronger than Wind one, but the Wind skill conpensate with their execution speed. We can translate this like that : If Fire strike one hit at 100, Wind strike two hit at 50. The result must be the same !

With this system, monk will be playable for two type of players ; Players who want big number and the players who want fast gameplay. It's not necessary to switch between the stances, but dancing with stances can make the difference between top player and more casual player ( the top player will look at choose the better stance, in the good situation). The identity of the Fists is more important et the difference between them will give to the monk player the possibility to have two gameplay ! This monk also have a better group utility with more tool to help allies. It still have the core of the job (Speed / Dynamic / Positioning / DPS) and grant him some diversity. The Job will have something unique and is own identity : The only Job with two gameplay / playstyle (not 3 because Fists of Earth will not be able to make the fight. It will be still an defensice and situational stance).

But I know I'm dreaming because all these change are too big for a simple patch. It's look more like a revamp of the job. It's something that won't came until 5.0 but I can still hope !