Red Mage AoE

[Dualblade]

While I'm all for having better AoE combos for Red Mage, I'm used to Dragoon Doom Spike spam. I can deal with RDM scatter spamming.

[Tide]

Lore-wise it makes sense, jack of all trades, master of none. They should not be able to cast flare or holy at the same levels as a BLM or WHM.

Agreed but id consider the red mage flare and holy to be better than the whm or blm. Though if you wanted to argue that its just more concentrated hence the higher potency and single target. But all the other elemental spells are more potent as well fire thunder aero and stone. So i dont think they really fit the jack of all trades master of none category.

[KaerisKlyne]

I don't think I'm ever going to understand the need for every job to be great at every aspect of combat. There's nothing wrong with RDM lacking in AoE, they have an AoE combo. Scatter/Enhanced Scatter to build mana, a single spell to unbalance mana levels slightly, jump in for Enchanted Moulinet until you can't anymore, jump back out and repeat. It's SO GOOD at single target that it doesn't NEED to be good at AoE.

It feels like people only want this to be a thing because the "meta" is mass-pulling trash between bosses. That's not a game problem, that's a players rushing content problem. You can't blame the job design for that. Other jobs have just as little and/or basic AoE capabilities and almost always at the expense of burning resources dramatically where TP-based jobs are concerned.

[Nihility]

I don't think I'm ever going to understand the need for every job to be great at every aspect of combat. There's nothing wrong with RDM lacking in AoE, they have an AoE combo. Scatter/Enhanced Scatter to build mana, a single spell to unbalance mana levels slightly, jump in for Enchanted Moulinet until you can't anymore, jump back out and repeat. It's SO GOOD at single target that it doesn't NEED to be good at AoE.

It feels like people only want this to be a thing because the "meta" is mass-pulling trash between bosses. That's not a game problem, that's a players rushing content problem. You can't blame the job design for that. Other jobs have just as little and/or basic AoE capabilities and almost always at the expense of burning resources dramatically where TP-based jobs are concerned.

i think the problem is more of a comparison thing.

compared to other mages. Black mage and Summoner both have great aoe and mechanics to make mp never be an issue
I'd say red mage will be able to sustain aoe about as well as a white mage but then again white mage has thin air now... 100 potency isn't that terrible btw

but then the big comparison would be samurai since it is the other new job

samurai has an overabundance of literally everything
red mage has it's building skills, consuming skills, and finishers but they are all pretty stringent in pattern usage. even the gap closer and opener are designed to just be part of the consumer part of rotation. The skill the speeds up building even resets them to make sure
Then they have a builder and consumer aoe but it looks like 30s+ of building for one consumer

now samurai on the other hand has 3 combos to build up 2 distinct resources. one resource has 2 very good single target finishers while the other is used for a ton of great ogc stuff to the point that samurai is probably the most mobile class in the game while also having the most spammable ogc damage and even has other ogc damage just in case the 1s cooldown on the first is too long...
then they have 2 aoe combos that also build up the 2 points needed for the very good aoe finisher and build up the other gauge for an aoe ogc skill and still have access to the amazing mobility.

It's a pretty stark constrast. Red mage has the neat res utility but not really the mp resources to back it up and the decaying damage buff but samurai has such high potency that it will be benefiting quite a bit more from other classes aoe buffs than your average dps that is bringing party utility

[KaerisKlyne]

snip

Those are fair points! I think it's fair to weigh it against Samurai as a job being introduced alongside it, but I think as far as it relates to other casters, it's a matter of which caster your party wants to take for which piece of content. I maintain my stance that jobs within like categories shouldn't all be good at all the same things, but I do agree that Samurai (barring potency changes we may not yet know about) certainly seems to have MUCH more going for it in terms of desirability.

[Draxxion]

Well at least they have spammable (potentially so long as their mana holda out) AoE. Would love to have that in Stormblood as SMN.

[Nihility]

your not looking at SMN the right way then.

bane+shadowflare is about equal to red mage aoe every 3s for 30s at the cost of 2 global cooldowns then you get to spam ruin and your pet is attacking and you can throw in painflares and you get your dreadwyrm trance(which if you factor in the tri-disaster reset means your opener is just 3 off global cooldowns)

it's quite a bit more potent actually and more interesting. Red Mage's Aoe is basically just scatter over and over until they can moulinet and if enhanced scatter continuously procs even when it's up that is only one moulinet per 4 scatters. If enhanced scatter alternates it's 1 moulinet per 6 scatters

[Draxxion]

The issue with what you descibe Nihility is the time it takes to cast all that, cooldowns, and cost. Bane = Aethetflow and cooldown so not spammable and also potentially heavily nerfed in Stormblood. Shadowflare = right now cast time, but Stormblood it had a potential 60 second cooldown. Painflares = cooldown, potentially 5 seconds in Stormblood, and Aetherflow. Deathflare = only in Dreadwyrm and at/near end of it. Bahamut = needing to have gone through two previous dreadwyrms.

That all takes time, set up, and aetherflow which you only get 3 to work with till aethetflow is on cooldown. RDM just has to cast and has zero set up and it just costs mana.

[NovaLevossida]

The issue with what you descibe Nihility is the time it takes to cast all that, cooldowns, and cost. Bane = Aethetflow and cooldown so not spammable and also potentially heavily nerfed in Stormblood. Shadowflare = right now cast time, but Stormblood it had a potential 60 second cooldown. Painflares = cooldown, potentially 5 seconds in Stormblood, and Aetherflow. Deathflare = only in Dreadwyrm and at/near end of it. Bahamut = needing to have gone through two previous dreadwyrms.

That all takes time, set up, and aetherflow which you only get 3 to work with till aethetflow is on cooldown. RDM just has to cast and has zero set up and it just costs mana.

You're greatly overstating the complexity of SMN AoE. You do have to hit more than a couple of buttons, but by no means it is anything difficult. RDM has Death Blossom and a weak Katon basically. It's going to have an AoE rotation as boring as NIN's was.

[Arkenne]

It's going to have an AoE rotation as boring as NIN's was.

Except NIN will have Hellfrog and TCJ(SKD) now... soooooooo