Red Mage AoE

[Hyrist]

Not sure what they should do, if anything about RDM AoE. Keep in mind that not only is Dualcast a factor in this, but there's also no noted damage falloff in either case, so that has to be factored into the current meta in which most high damage AoEs do have that falloff to worry over. I also wouldn't be leaning on potency numbers from anything short of the actual patch notes a those will be adjusted up until the last minute. Then there's the OGCDs to consider later up the line.

As far as the hugely toted 'MP issue'. Ignoring the possibility of native MP tools lost in the tooltip, it should be noted that RDM has about a Melee's level of resource falloff in ideal up-time circumstances Which, ironically, is a good argument against Spell Speed in their build, but not hamstringing the job as simulations have been showing. Not even factoring downtime or human error (clipping, evasion, etc.). However I do expect AoE to be costly to MP pool for RDM, as it seems they are using that Melee standard resource maintenance.

Aside from numbers tweaks here and there I don't see a fundamental problem with the build idea - quick cast, low potency AoEs with no damage fall offs and consistent mana buildup, but at the cost of sustainability long term. I do think numbers need to be refined across the board but that's every job.

[Brinstar]

It's not so much that I mind the overall AoE design of the job: the whole build up a ressource and charge into melee to spend it seems like a natural fit for the job. It's all about that level 50 mark. I think it's really strange that Moulinet isn't learned at level 50 (or earlier) for example. I don't so much mind spamming Scatter in Brayflox and Aurum Vale, as those are dungeons I don't do too often, but only having that option in Amdapor Keep or Wanderer's Palace (Hard) is... ugh.

Another option would be for Scatter to actually do something a bit more interesting, like make your next Veraero or Verthunder do it's damage in AoE with half the potency for example. It's not so much about raw power, but more about having a nicer flow the the job.

All in all I don't really mind RDM being the weakest of the casters in terms of AoE, I just wish it looked more fun and interesting than it does currently :'(

[ZhaneX]

Speaking of AoE, anyone curious about RDM's Limit Break? As a Caster it must be an AoE-type, but I wonder what form it will take? Perhaps that huge Light-Blast that Alisaie used in 3.4? How would that work compared to the others though, which are targeted AoEs? Maybe have it include a leap in the animation like DRG?

[Xyrn86]

Speaking of AoE, anyone curious about RDM's Limit Break? As a Caster it must be an AoE-type, but I wonder what form it will take? Perhaps that huge Light-Blast that Alisaie used in 3.4? How would that work compared to the others though, which are targeted AoEs? Maybe have it include a leap in the animation like DRG?

Been wondering this for a bit now. Im down with what you mentioned, but at the same time Id love to see it be something that merges the Holy and Flare. Now sadly I'm not the best at coming up with names but something simple such as "Holy Flare" or something like that. Of course Id also love it if Redmage's L3 Limit Break was Ultima or Meltdown.

[Gamer3427]

Don't forget that while RDM's first AoE spell might not be spectacular, and there's only one option for AoE attacks at 50 and below, most of the AoE spells that exist currently are getting either nerfed or in some cases flat out removed. For example, MCH will also only have one directly cast AoE prior to even level 60. Yes, we'll have Bishop, but that's more of a permanent DoT than anything else, so it doesn't help alleviate one of the problems you cited, which is the boredom of recasting constantly.....

They seem to be trying to move the game slightly away from the "just pull big and just AoE spam" problem that plagues dungeons at the moment, which will upset people who want to just speed through them, but will make it so that it's more reasonable to play through the dungeon normally and still have a semi-comparable clear time, which will keep people from getting quite as upset at parties that don't pull big. Also, do keep in mind that Dualcast means that for every spell you cast, the next one won't have a cast time, so it will be a lot faster of casting that one AoE than it appears, so you can't judge potency for RDM quite the same as you can other classes......

[Semmi]

Also, do keep in mind that Dualcast means that for every spell you cast, the next one won't have a cast time, so it will be a lot faster of casting that one AoE than it appears, so you can't judge potency for RDM quite the same as you can other classes......

This doesn't actually mean anything, you are still limited by the GCD and Scatter's base cast time is shorter than the GCD anyways. This is more or less the equivalent of a SMN going Ruin1 > Ruin2 over and over.

[Hyrist]

This doesn't actually mean anything, you are still limited by the GCD and Scatter's base cast time is shorter than the GCD anyways. This is more or less the equivalent of a SMN going Ruin1 > Ruin2 over and over.

That's actually a misnomer, especially for summoner.

While, yes, the global cooldown is a factor for casting, the instant cast spells offer couple important utilities for casters across the board in the form of offering a window for OGCDs and in allowing motion during GCD cooldown periods.

For Red Mage, this means its to maintain uptime while evading, and available to use off global cooldowns without interrupting/clipping as well. Red Mage is actually middle of the three when it comes to value of usable off global cooldown tools among casters.

So, 50 content? Not very powerful AoE. 60 Content, over the course of a Dungeon? RDM's AoE isn't terrible, especially when you factor that, like Summoner, AoE Resource more or less maintains between fights. 70 Content? All mages fall off in comparison to melee. (Summoner gets one really bursty phase during Bahamut summon, but most AoE needs die too quickly to make full use of that thus far, maybe that will change?)

Again, speculatively, all the pieces seem to be there with good thought behind them. Just need to see how it actually plays firsthand.

[VorpalSpork]

I think they need to rethink the AoE a bit - it just seems like they didn't think about pre-50 at all. Also, if the AoE is too low even at 70, there is plenty of content that people will avoid including RDM for. The class looks really fun, and I don't mind a simple AoE, as long as it is decent. In this case, it looks like it will be worst in the game by a pretty solid margin.

[Silverquick]

I think they need to rethink the AoE a bit - it just seems like they didn't think about pre-50 at all. Also, if the AoE is too low even at 70, there is plenty of content that people will avoid including RDM for. The class looks really fun, and I don't mind a simple AoE, as long as it is decent. In this case, it looks like it will be worst in the game by a pretty solid margin.

Honestly level 50 isn't where you find the mass mob spam anyway. There you have to intentionally invite it in most places.


Its level 60 content where you see it. The Expert Roulettes alone will spam it at you whether you pull mass mobs intentionally or not. Aetherochemical Facility has the Node mob spam and the two initial walls in the beginning. Baelsar's Wall has multiple points where you're facing 6-10 mob spreads whether you wanted them or not (like the conveyer belt ride or the Boss Mob where he summons a good 15 minions. Oh in Sohm Al Hard during middle area with the Worm in the middle.

There's a LOT of large 6-10 mob spreads in the 60th level content whether you are intentionally pulling that many or not. So the Devs are already throwing that at you.

So as long as you have at least some AoE in the 60th level content.

That's where the mass mob spam will hit you more.

Still the single target damage output on this job is incredibly high, so as long as you have a good AoE DPS partner they will probably be able to cover your weaknesses.

[Blueyes]

FFXIV: Stormblood - First look at Red Mage! Hands-on gameplay + all actions!

That video gives us a look at AoE combat from the perspective of a Red Mage. In the footage we see Enhanced Scatter (8 white/black mana) proc pretty often, but it doesn't occur consistently which means there's a random chance, bearing in mind that this is still in development. That means Scatter (3 white/black mana) will need to be cast between 6 and 10 times to obtain the required mana for Enchanted Moulinet. Earlier reports listed a 25% chance to proc Enhanced Scatter which means an averages of 8 casts to reach 30 white and black mana.