XIV on Switch and Xbox

[Lirion]

I think the problem with MS is that they want you to pay for Live to play FFXIV, while the FF team don't want the player to have to pay for two subs to play the game. On PS4 you don't need Plus to play FFXIV.
If I'm not mistaken I think this was the reason why we're not seeing FFXIV on a MS console.

[silverlunarfox]

snip.

Here's the thing, PS4 uses PS Plus, for uh, I dont know what aside from being able to play online and access certain apps. (I really think Plus is a waste even tho i have it) Xbox uses Xbox Live Gold, which pays for everything you would get on PS4 but ALSO their own server usage if a game decides it wants to use it. (The only reason I justify paying for the gold cost as well, which I also have) What it comes down to, is they'd prefer heavily to use their servers. There are certain apps and games you can play (but perhaps minus some online capability in games) with just a Silver account which is free. So in the end I don't think it has anything to do with the sub fee to gold. UNLESS MS insists they have to use THEIR servers not SE own servers. It's just a sticky situation business wise, and no one wants to give. Remember XI used to be on Xbox...I also see it as Xbox is less interested with Japanese games on their console. PS4 is clearly the JRPG central with Xbox getting the snub or Xbox not seeing worth in having those games on their system. The issue is much broader than a sub fee, or server usage, but also over player base, sales, interest, etc...

[Kosmos992k]

Here's the thing, PS4 uses PS Plus, for uh, I dont know what aside from being able to play online and access certain apps.

Here's the thing. PS4 uses PSN for uh...network services such as authentication of users and license checking. PS Plus has zero to do with that. You don't have to be subscribed to PS Plus at all for your PS4 to go online and play games that support online play without PS Plus. PS Plus is a premium service offering that sits on top of PSN. PSN is required for online play, but PS Plus is not. Then again since PSN is 100% completely free gratis, I am left wondering what your rather scattered point really is.

One final point. It's up to the developers to choose what they want/need from Sony. If they want to provide their own servers then PS Plus is not required, and Sony is quite cool with that. If they want Sony's infrastructure to help them then PS Plus will be needed and Sony is cool with that too. Sony really doesn't care because either way they get royalties from game sales and from console/accessory sales, and the more games on the console, the more players buy them.

[enthauptet]

Here's the thing. PS4 uses PSN for uh...network services such as authentication of users and license checking. PS Plus has zero to do with that. You don't have to be subscribed to PS Plus at all for your PS4 to go online and play games that support online play without PS Plus. PS Plus is a premium service offering that sits on top of PSN. PSN is required for online play, but PS Plus is not. Then again since PSN is 100% completely free gratis, I am left wondering what your rather scattered point really is.

You have to have PS Plus to even play pretty much every single player games (since all of them use coop or server side processing for anti-cheating now) so I'm not sure why it has ever been an issue for them. Maybe because it was not required for PS3? It has been since PS4 so...

Having individual separate servers is the only thing that really matters imo. If they really care about paying for gold then their priorities are asinine as 99% of xbox users already have it and the people that don't aren't playing right now so their sub lapsed.

[RubenSnizzle]

You have to have PS Plus to even play pretty much every single player games (since all of them use coop or server side processing for anti-cheating now) so I'm not sure why it has ever been an issue for them. Maybe because it was not required for PS3? It has been since PS4 so...

Having individual separate servers is the only thing that really matters imo. If they really care about paying for gold then their priorities are asinine as 99% of xbox users already have it and the people that don't aren't playing right now so their sub lapsed.

Cause microsoft is greedy, always been. They want xbox users to have gold to play 14, but SE doesn't want to, cause 14 is a sub based game and ect.. Until MS drop the 'need gold to play 14' it won't ever come to xbox. Cause as it stands, cross-play is already in effect by the host (SE) and all they're waiting on is for MS to stop being a baby and grow up.

[Kosmos992k]

You have to have PS Plus to even play pretty much every single player games (since all of them use coop or server side processing for anti-cheating now) so I'm not sure why it has ever been an issue for them. Maybe because it was not required for PS3? It has been since PS4 so...

Having individual separate servers is the only thing that really matters imo. If they really care about paying for gold then their priorities are asinine as 99% of xbox users already have it and the people that don't aren't playing right now so their sub lapsed.

No, the stance is the same. It's up to the developers whether or not to make use of PS Plus. If they want to remain outside that ecosystem, they have to agree that with Sony, and provide their own online service components. There is still some integration with PSN, but PS Plus is not needed. People seem to have some kind of compulsive need to imagine otherwise, but it's not the case. Now, considering that providing your own infrastructure isn't cheap, I can see why many devs choose not to do that. Also, additional features available specifically through PS Plus may be part of what they want to offer their gamers.

But, at the end of the day, the simple truth is that technologically speaking, all that is needed to play online with PS4 is PSN for authentication and license checking - so long as the game supports this. PS Plus isn't needed, and no amount of mental gymnastics will make it otherwise. Also, this has nothing to do with PS3, it's Sony policy.

Oh, and BTW the uptake rate for Gold membership with Xbox 360 was no where near 100%, it was closer to 60% and I've seen nothing to suggest that it's any different now. It's most certainly not 99% of Xbox gamers.

[thegreatonemal]

You have to have PS Plus to even play pretty much every single player games (since all of them use coop or server side processing for anti-cheating now) so I'm not sure why it has ever been an issue for them. Maybe because it was not required for PS3? It has been since PS4 so...

Having individual separate servers is the only thing that really matters imo. If they really care about paying for gold then their priorities are asinine as 99% of xbox users already have it and the people that don't aren't playing right now so their sub lapsed.

No you don't. You only need ps plus to play online games. the exceptions being games that are free to play or have a sub fee. Everything else to play online multiplayer needs plus

[KarstenS]

PS Plus has zero to do with that.

The difference is very simple.

Some vendors, like SE with FF14, have their own servers to run the online mode.

Other vendors host them within the PSN.

The former you can play without PS+. The latter require PS+.

You have to have PS Plus to even play pretty much every single player games.

I've never seen a single player game that was not playable without PSPlus.

[era1Ne]

One final point. It's up to the developers to choose what they want/need from Sony. If they want to provide their own servers then PS Plus is not required, and Sony is quite cool with that. If they want Sony's infrastructure to help them then PS Plus will be needed and Sony is cool with that too. Sony really doesn't care because either way they get royalties from game sales and from console/accessory sales, and the more games on the console, the more players buy them.

No, it is not up to the developer. F2P games and monthly sub based mmo don't need to use PS+, but all others do.

Sony Worldwide Studios President Shuhei Yoshida said, "As far as free-to-play games are concerned, it's the publisher's decision whether they put it inside or outside of PS Plus."

https://www.engadget.com/2013/06/12/...s-dont-requir/

Second source:

Is PlayStation Plus necessary for multiplayer gameplay on PS4?
Yes, PlayStation Plus membership is needed for PS4 online multiplayer gaming. PS4 features a significantly enhanced online feature set that will deliver innovative new online gaming experiences.
Will non PS Plus members be able to play free to play online games on PS4?
Certain titles built on a free-to-play model will not require PlayStation Plus for multiplayer functionality in North America.

https://blog.us.playstation.com/2013...america/#sect8

[Kosmos992k]

No, it is not up to the developer. F2P games and monthly sub based mmo don't need to use PS+, but all others do. https://www.engadget.com/2013/06/12/...s-dont-requir/

Second source: https://blog.us.playstation.com/2013...america/#sect8

::sigh::

Cherry picking quotes from Shuhei Yoshida in 2013, and from a FAQ on the PlayStation Blog doesn't help you.

In the very same series of interviews Shuhei Yoshida mentioned that PS Plus was required for 'realtime' multi-player online play, but this wasn't clarified, and many reports dropped that quote all together because of the lack of clarity.

However, as you can see from this information updated in Feb 2017, it's not as you say, nor has it ever been. Let me see if I can break this down for you;

PS Plus required?

You need to be a member of PlayStation Plus or have a local user account on the subscriber’s ‘Primary PS4’ to play many games online.

So, you have to be a PS plus member to play many games online, but not all?

Online play without a subscription
You don’t need to be a PlayStation Plus member to play online on your PlayStation 3 or PS Vita, but we recommend subscribing as it allows you to take advantage of all the extra features you receive when you join.

So PS3 and PS VIta don't need Plus at all....not that it matters too much for PS4.

You also do not need to be a member of PlayStation Plus to play non-synchronous games on the PlayStation 4.

Hmmm..... what does that mean I wonder?

Synchronous games are games where two consoles need to be synched up to communicate with each other in real time - for example if you are playing co-op or competition mode on a shooting or racing game. Non-synchronous games mean that the two consoles do not need to be communicating in real time

So, if two PS4 consoles are synchronized, communicating peer to peer for playing online, they do so over Sony's network using services exclusive to PS Plus. This will affect games such as Tekken 7, Call of Duty and any other 'real time action' games that fire data packets back and forth between consoles.

However non-synchronous is any game where the PS4 consoles are not communicating with each other directly in real time (peer to peer). So *any* server based game such as an MMO, where the client (PS4 console) communicates with a server, and that server then communicates with other clients (could be PS4s, PCs or anything else) is non-synchronous. Games such as this may not require PS Plus.

If a game needs to make use of Sony's proprietary network beyond simple authentication and license checking to facilitate online play, it needs PS Plus. If a game uses Peer to Peer communication between PS4s, that communication is mediated via PS Plus service. Of course with real time action games, one of the reasons for this is to prevent cheating. There has to be some level of verification and trust pretty much all the time to ensure that no one cheats. This is just one aspect of using PS Plus since your console has to be continually checked and verified to keep your peer to peer session open. The PS networking services used are provided as part of the PS Plus package by Sony and cost money, so they charge.

On the other hand, if a game uses the client server model and doesn't do direct PS4 to PS4 real time communication, then it doesn't have to use PS Plus. The key thing here though is that if the developer/publisher doesn't want to create their own server infrastructure, they will have to engage with Sony to do it within Sony's services - and PS Plus will be needed. If on the other hand the developer is happy to create it's own service infrastructure and servers, then PS Plus isn't needed.

You're always trying to frame this in terms of everything has to go through PS Plus, and that's simply not true. Nor is it true to imply that developers are not free to choose whether they use PS Plus or not.

As I said, at the start "It's up to the developers to choose what they want/need from Sony.". Yes, there are some kinds of game that need to make use of services that are only available through PS Plus, meaning PS Plus will be a requirement in those cases. But, for online multi-player games that do not have to use such services, it's the developer's choice of how to proceed. Sony will help any way they are asked to.

Free to play games have been mentioned as not needing PS Plus. That's true, on the surface, but Free to Play games on PS4 use a micro transaction model that pushes transactions through the PS Store and it's services. The old saying that there is no such thing as a free lunch comes to mind, Sony still gets it's cut via their portion of the micro-transaction fees, they don't charge the players by requiring PS Plus since that would mean the game is not 'free to play'. However, players ultimately pay Sony and the developer through the transactions - it's an alternate revenue model that supplements the operating costs for Sony.

FFXIV is an interesting case because other than purchasing the games themselves on, everything else is done via SE's subscriptions and the Mogstation, and none of that revenue goes to Sony at all. Sony is not into giving things away free, but since FFXIV's servers and online services are hosted entirely by SE and there is no need for PS4 to PS4 communication in real time with all the safeguards and other services Sony provides, Sony has no reason to charge additional fees. FFXIV is in effect the model case for MMO games on PS4 that do not need PS Plus. FFXIV isn't a 'special' case, it's simply how it works if your game doesn't do peer to peer PS4 communication or Sony provided infrastructure.

Which goes back to PSN is 100% Free. PSN provides user authentication and license checking. PS Plus is not required for games like FFXIV because they do not use anything beyond basic user authentication and license checking.