Boycotting Warrior 4.0 (Let's do it!)

[FallenWings]

For the love of all you consider holy and the cheese cakes... That CAN'T BE MORE ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Please stop spreading the meme...

Y-you're wrong...! PLD is a PALADIN and has SHIELDS. Defiance doesn't reduce damage l-like Shield Oath.

Im absolutely with you.. When yoshi said " We havent forgotten you Tanks and Healers." i believed him even though i was extremely disapointed with Samurai being no Tank. But Hell what is this? Yesterday i had a Weeping City Run with 2 new healers. I was the only one Surviving the entire fight ( as a WAR ofc) Thanks to Bloodbath. This made it even more clear to me how much this nerf will hurt.

No new tanks/healers because they wanted to properly balance the tanks and healers present. PLD slated to be OP, WAR crippled and DRK dumbed down.
SAM being the cloth wearing variant with a complete nonsense romanticism because somehow a historically terrible weapon like the katana is more destructive than literal fire explosions?
SAM having a completely selfish design with it's pure damage and no utility forcing all buffs to be funneled onto them and potentially making tanks have to tank stance more just to cater to them specifically?

Thanks Yoshi P.

[Reynhart]

SAM having a completely selfish design with it's pure damage and no utility forcing all buffs to be funneled onto them and potentially making tanks have to tank stance more just to cater to them specifically?

Hmmm, what's the problem with that ? Are you angry of losing part of your DPS to allow real DPS to go medieval on the ennemy ? You'd prefer SAM to do a lot less damage so you can do more, and in the end, having a weaker party setup ?

[FallenWings]

I'd generally prefer a synergistic team so that everyone can perform at their peak rather than sucking the {Full Thrust} of an arguably poorly designed class because they require everyone else to cater to/gimp themselves so THEY can do their best.

I just hate the katana fantasy. MUH GLORIOUS NIPPON STEEL triggers me oh so greatly. Katana more impactful than a GREAT AXE or GREAT SWORD? Stop it. Faster? By all means. But this stupid cut through anything meme makes me so anger as a immersion player.

[Reynhart]

I'd generally prefer a synergistic team so that everyone can perform at their peak rather than sucking the {Full Thrust} of an arguably poorly designed class because they require everyone else to cater to/gimp themselves so THEY can do their best.

That's still a synergy. Having a SAM do so much personal damage that it will take hate off a DPS-stance tank and focusing that tank on keeping enmity is a team effort. More importantly, that's actually asking a tank to...tank.
You're still asking DPS to do less damage so you can do more, that's not bad design or lack of synergy...for me, that's selfish.

[FallenWings]

It's raid boosting sure. I never said I wouldn't do it, doesn't mean I'll like doing it.

I get less Fell Cleaves because I have to put on the punishing Defiance Stance so my friend can enjoy his whatever confusingly named skill more? Wow. I truly do feel much more rewarded.

And please, don't give me your "real tank" nonsense. We have different definitions so lets leave it at that.
I'm not asking a DPS do less damage. I'm asking that a DPS class be designed in a way that doesn't take away the enjoyment from others because their full potential is stepping on someone elses toes.

[Reynhart]

We have different definitions so lets leave it at that.

If your definition is not "Keep aggro first, survive second and kill third", then you're not defining a tank.

I'm asking that a DPS class be designed in a way that doesn't take away the enjoyment from others because their full potential is stepping on someone elses toes.

Frankly, if enforcing more tank stance time is enough to take away your enjoyment, why don't you just play a DPS ?

[FallenWings]

If your definition is not "Keep aggro first, survive second and kill third", then you're not defining a tank.

Frankly, if enforcing more tank stance time is enough to take away your enjoyment, why don't you just play a DPS ?

*Eye roll*

I'm an immersion player. I enjoy fighting enemies head on like a Fighter/Warrior. I enjoy defending AND attacking rather than pure assassination techniques. So I play XIV's tank. I play WARRIOR and not ShieldBot5000.

There is nothing inherently fun about a stance that boosts 2 of your mandatory to a certain point roles slightly but greatly diminishes your generally always good third one. Worse off yet on WAR with half it's skill set locked behind each stance. (Believe it or not, I'd like to use IB and Defiance more if they didn't suck.)

Defiance, Grit, and ShO frankly suck and never feel good to use. I don't even understand why they punish you for using them and lock you out of your skills, most notably WAR's job toolkit and DRK's Blood Weapon and now Blood Price. It's all passive gains too so it's even less interactive to use.

[Phoenicia]

Snips of lots of posts here.

I like this person...

Btw you never told me what happens if that hyur touches me. I'm curious.

If your definition is not "Keep aggro first, survive second and kill third", then you're not defining a tank.

Frankly, if enforcing more tank stance time is enough to take away your enjoyment, why don't you just play a DPS ?

That's the exact problem. Forcing me to NOT optimize just so you can is just lame. Why should YOUR fun in doing twice my DPS come at the cost of mine being lowered to even half of that? lol

And in any case. Tank stances' penalties are stupid. I'd rather both stances have penalties of one form or another. Or just have tank stances go away and have some skills deal damage while others generate enmity and be enough on their own. I mean the tank stances don't change much in game play anyways.

[Reynhart]

Forcing me to NOT optimize just so you can is just lame.

If you lose aggro because you want to do more damage, sorry, but you're not optimizing your job.

When you want to balance DPS jobs, you automatically analyze the scale of personal DPS vs utility. So, it's only logical to design jobs on the whole spectrum, and thus, at the extreme tip of the scale. On the opposite of SAM, it would be interesting to have a job that has very low personal DPS but massive raid utility. It's absolutely not a bad design choice.

Tank stance penalties are not stupid. Their only purpose is to keep balance while allowing you to comfortably play solo. In games whithout a dedicated tank stance, tank jobs do absolute crap damage all the time.

[Phoenicia]

Tank stance penalties are not stupid. Their only purpose is to keep balance while allowing you to comfortably play solo. In games whithout a dedicated tank stance, tank jobs do absolute crap damage all the time.

We'll just agree to disagree about what optimizing a job means then.

As for for tank stances, there are many ways to keep balance while still allowing you to solo. Locking mitigation behind GCDs that push the DPS GCDs away is one of them. Take TERA for example, tanks do insane batsh*t damage, but only if they're not tanking. Bosses will always keep a lancer behind his shield and Warrior couldn't finish its combos while bosses wailed at them, but when in solo, lancer and warrior kill things almost as fast as anyone else. Tanking in that game was the most fun I had as a tank in any MMO. Too bad the MMO itself flops when it comes to everything other than combat. (While this game gets so much right but not the combat imo lol).