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  1. #31
    Player
    konpachizaraki's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    173
    Character
    Grandfall Fraxinus
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    Actually, they were to an extent. Double Warrior would have prevailed if it weren't for the impact on the LB gauge.
    many raid group were hesitant to make WAR the MT because they weren't as good at it compared to DRK and PLD, but this 4.0 PLD will be perfect at both OT and MT role, something that the other 2 lacks because they are only gonna be perfect at 1 and decent on the other
    (0)

  2. #32
    Player
    aleph_null's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    690
    Character
    Aleph Alpha
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by konpachizaraki View Post
    many raid group were hesitant to make WAR the MT because they weren't as good at it compared to DRK and PLD, but this 4.0 PLD will be perfect at both OT and MT role, something that the other 2 lacks because they are only gonna be perfect at 1 and decent on the other
    That's not a relevant concern, it probably takes a few pulls to get used with the timing and positioning of the bosses. If your "OT" can't manage it then they aren't a very good player in the first place and probably weren't even doing decent enough as OT.
    (4)

  3. #33
    Player
    mcspamm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    99
    Character
    Sophi Wynne
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by konpachizaraki View Post
    many raid group were hesitant to make WAR the MT because they weren't as good at it compared to DRK and PLD, but this 4.0 PLD will be perfect at both OT and MT role, something that the other 2 lacks because they are only gonna be perfect at 1 and decent on the other
    (Emphasis mine) I'm sorry, what?

    The only reason most groups didn't make WAR the "MT" (which is already somewhat debatable, seeing as a number of fights force tank swaps anyway, thus deviating from the MT/OT paradigm) is because WAR gains very little from MTing relative to the other two tanks. PLD can make use of Sheltron and Shield Swipe, and DRK could use Reprisal and Low Blow resets, whereas the only thing "extra" WAR contributes as the MT is some extra damage from physical hits while Vengeance is active.

    It's not that WAR has been a worse MT thus far, it's that PLD and DRK are both suboptimal OTs in Heavensward.

    Not to mention the fact that WAR has the shortest all-purpose cooldowns of any of the tanks (with a shout-out to Dark Mind for magic tankbusters, such as A4S and A12S), with Inner Beast very readily available if needed, Thrill of Battle as a pseudo-cooldown every two minutes (+max HP works on all damage types~), Raw Intuition for 100% parry against (multi-hit) physical busters every 90s (compared with Bulwark and Dark Dance being reliant on block and parry procs respectively), Vengeance every two mins, and Holmgang - WAR's immunity - usable every three minutes!

    ----

    Moving into Stormblood with what we currently know, I'm concerned about WAR's ability to MT because of the stance dancing changes. Losing half your beast gauge every time WAR switches stances is overly punishing IMO, because it's not a fixed cost like it is for PLD and DRK (1 GCD + mana cost).

    That said, between Shadewalker and access to Shirk now as a role skill for tanks, WAR might still be fine as a MT in Stormblood...if we swap to Deliverance immediately after Tomahawk, and stay in Deliverance the entire fight.
    (1)
    Last edited by mcspamm; 06-09-2017 at 12:41 PM.

  4. #34
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by mcspamm View Post
    Moving into Stormblood with what we currently know, I'm concerned about WAR's ability to MT because of the stance dancing changes. Losing half your beast gauge every time WAR switches stances is overly punishing IMO, because it's not a fixed cost like it is for PLD and DRK (1 GCD + mana cost).
    Being able to MT and stance dancing are two totally separate things, for me.

    And PLD also loses half its gauge when switching stances, delaying the use of Sheltron.
    (0)

  5. #35
    Player
    FallenWings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    520
    Character
    Xyasreau Borlaaq
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    Being able to MT and stance dancing are two totally separate things, for me.

    And PLD also loses half its gauge when switching stances, delaying the use of Sheltron.
    Arguably not as bad since PLD only theoretically loses immediate access to Sheltron and Intervention(two comparatively lackluster skills in the PLD arsenal) versus half of Warrior's Kit.
    (3)

  6. #36
    Player
    Neophyte's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    940
    Character
    Mim Silmaril
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Wouldn't cry about the loss of bloodbath. It' effectivness decreases with ilvl and would decrease with the new damage calculation for tanks in stormblood even faster, while every other def. CDs effectivness stays the same or even rises with higher content.

    E.g. back in Gordias a STR War could heal almost 100% of their max hp himself, now you regenerate lets say 50% of your max. HP, at ilvl 290 in Stormblood it might be only 30%, since your HP doubled and your AP just got +10% to what we have now.
    At the end of SB maybe 10% or less?
    (1)

  7. #37
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by FallenWings View Post
    Arguably not as bad since PLD only theoretically loses immediate access to Sheltron and Intervention(two comparatively lackluster skills in the PLD arsenal) versus half of Warrior's Kit.
    As a MT, I'd hardly call Sheltron a lackluster ability since it's an on-demand 25+% mitigation on any tankbuster. One of the drawbacks on PLD is having only "long" CD, almost forcing to use Hallowed Ground on their basic rotation, especially against magical attacks.

    But as I said on other topics, don't worry, fellow WAR, I'll spam Intervention on you so you don't have to use Defiance to survive

    However, I think Infuriate sould keep its current effect of filling entirely your ressource, to help WAR keep its damage, since it's abig part of its identity.
    (1)

  8. #38
    Player
    Alphras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    416
    Character
    Rojer Alphras
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Sheltron is in a difficult spot. In theory it is a very strong ability, but that depends on the kind of tank buster you are dealing with. On multi hit attacks it can be pretty worthless. It can also be eaten very easily by an untimely auto attack.

    Another problem is that PLD in Shield Oath depends on random blocks to build its resource. Seems pretty unreliable to me.

    Intervention on the other hand ...
    (0)
    Last edited by Alphras; 06-09-2017 at 08:15 PM.

  9. #39
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Alphras View Post
    Another problem is that PLD in Shield Oath depends on random blocks to build its resource. Seems pretty unreliable to me.
    Do we know how much the gauge fills for each block ?
    (0)

  10. #40
    Player
    Alphras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    416
    Character
    Rojer Alphras
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    It was 5 in the preview build, but I think they will adjust that until the release (they need to).

    I don't like the whole concept of blocking to build resource as a whole. A tank needs to be able to plan mitigation beforehand.
    (3)

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