Time for a public test server?

[Kazrah]

Not public but some people have test it. They probably have some informations from that, to see how people have react, number, blabla.

From how I've come to understand it, it's mostly devs testing it and then having a VERY minor number of players beta test it under incredibly strict circumstances. The end result is situations which result in massive backlash among the playerbase (i.e. 4.0 White Mage information) as well as elements which have been proven by players checking the numbers to show a lack of overall testing (i.e. Wanderer's Minuet/Gauss Barrel on Heavensward launch).

Why is there no PTS? Part of me thinks there might be something against showing incomplete products, either cultural or something more business-oriented. The primary reason is I think from a more an anti-spoiler mindset; a desire for players to explore the vast realms created within the game free of any real knowledge beforehand, but just enough to keep that hype drip going. Although it's a worthwhile mentality for something like XV or any single-player or small-group game, it's not exactly a realistic mentality when it's something like the ever-changing world of an MMORPG.

WoW actually gave a really good solution to this with its level boost system. Single-player trial/tutorial which would show players the inner workings of whatever they're playing, ending with a transition into the start of the current expansion. Applying it to FFXIV would allow not only the means of allowing players to test a job in an environment free of anything related to any of the stories in the game, but it would also give that Jump Potion a better reason to be a thing.

[JunseiKei]

Stress testing servers would be better than PTRs. This isn't Blizzard that will nerf and buff something just because someone sneezed. Honestly, the team already has in mind how the classes are supposed to work. We see "balances" when the playerbase fails to meet the performance needed to play the class well (3.0 and AST). Very few classes get any balances, just tweeks (like BRD and making Minuet instant, but with a cooldown when it was originally a stance that took 3 seconds to cast like it was a song). They fixed the Raw Intuition bug pretty quickly.

[Khalithar]

Yes, yes it is. It's players that figure out things that the dev miss and notice certain classes being over or under powered and making efforts to fix them.

On Blizzard's test server for WoW they allow players to test everything coming up, ALL the content, all the raids and dungeons, and allow players to use the numbers and gear to help the devs balance things, there's spoilers and all of the surprises are removed ahead of time. Know what? That's the way I prefer it, believe it or not I actually hate surprises. Especially when it comes to things like new abilities and numbers, I want to know EVERY change, EVERY number, EVERY mechanic, and all of that ahead of time so I know what to expect.

The devs need to stop being so restrictive and just let players in to test the content and use parsers to determine where things are messed up or don't work right. It's definitely a lesson they need to learn from Blizzard. If you don't want to be spoiled, fine, don't go on the PTR and don't read the posts about it on the forums. Keep yourself away from any sort of information you don't want, but for the rest of us? I say the devs should let us in to see what's up.

[Kazrah]

Honestly, the team already has in mind how the classes are supposed to work. We see "balances" when the playerbase fails to meet the performance needed to play the class well (3.0 and AST). Very few classes get any balances, just tweeks (like BRD and making Minuet instant, but with a cooldown when it was originally a stance that took 3 seconds to cast like it was a song). They fixed the Raw Intuition bug pretty quickly.

They also fixed Minuet and Gauss Barrel quickly too after theorycrafters figured out that both of those buffs were actually DPS losses right after launch due to a failure in factoring in the loss of auto-attack damage.

That's exactly why we need at least more open testing of job-based content. They can explain the overall goal for how each job is supposed to work, but only players can really show how that job works in practical application.

[JunseiKei]

Yes, yes it is. It's players that figure out things that the dev miss and notice certain classes being over or under powered and making efforts to fix them.

On Blizzard's test server for WoW they allow players to test everything coming up, ALL the content, all the raids and dungeons, and allow players to use the numbers and gear to help the devs balance things, there's spoilers and all of the surprises are removed ahead of time. Know what? That's the way I prefer it, believe it or not I actually hate surprises. Especially when it comes to things like new abilities and numbers, I want to know EVERY change, EVERY number, EVERY mechanic, and all of that ahead of time so I know what to expect.

The devs need to stop being so restrictive and just let players in to test the content and use parsers to determine where things are messed up or don't work right. It's definitely a lesson they need to learn from Blizzard. If you don't want to be spoiled, fine, don't go on the PTR and don't read the posts about it on the forums. Keep yourself away from any sort of information you don't want, but for the rest of us? I say the devs should let us in to see what's up.

That would kill all the fun for people like me and would mean you'd have to utterly disconnect yourself from anyone and everyone you know that went into PTR and wanted to talk about it. That's the just the tip of the iceberg on that, but I'll just boil it down to a difference of bias between us and people like us.

They also fixed Minuet and Gauss Barrel quickly too after theorycrafters figured out that both of those buffs were actually DPS losses right after launch due to a failure in factoring in the loss of auto-attack damage.

That's exactly why we need at least more open testing of job-based content. They can explain the overall goal for how each job is supposed to work, but only players can really show how that job works in practical application.

*Rubs chin.*

From when I was playing then and what I understood that it was known that stance dancing was required on BRD and MCH and not meant to be a set and forget mechanic. However, this made both classes largely undesirable so they tweaked it to be more appealing. Hence why I stated, also, Minuet being used like a song, but having no cooldown to having a cooldown, but can instantly switch back into it.

Literally, Yoshida's post was:
-We know the damage while in Minuet is not comparable to when you are not in Minuet;
-It's hard to feel like you're getting a positive return switching in and out of Minuet, especially when you keep your mobility outside of it;
-That switching, overall, was just hard to use.

Nowhere in the post did it imply that it was a bug or a bad judgement, only that it made players feel it was more work for what felt like little gain.

I actually find it amusing that 4.0 seems to be re-visiting the idea they had behind BRD being a stance dancer with the song gauge.

[Ariane]

They don't do it because of the shit show it causes.

Story is a big thing with this game. Ive seen fcs break apart because of people who rushed to lvl and spoil the end of HW story. People are assholes and this is their game. They take pride in it as they should and dont need some asshat without any accountability ruining it for others before it is live. Same reason there was a strict NDA for beta.

But they wouldn't have to give full access. They could give level 70 jobs, with the MSQ disabled/completed and also disable any trials/dungeons that would reveal too many spoilers.

[Caitlinzulu]

What i dont understand is why introduce a confusing set of stance dancing on one class while removing the stance dance from another? namely bard having to and removing it from healers. Understand who can

[Remedi]

No, the only difference would have been when the HW job changes would have come instead of how they would change a job, consider that those changes were handed in response to player reactions to the classes and having a PTR wouldn't have changed those at all imho.
I mean no offense but the forum was sure that AST needed a +30% healing buff when it come out so forgive if I'm very sceptic about all of this

[Naunet]

I agree that a PTR is and always has been sorely needed. Developers are simply not enough to properly test gameplay changes and features. The sheer number of testers means bugs that would otherwise fall through the cracks would get noticed and reported, and we would not have to suffer through a patch or more of a dysfunctional class adjustment, as those can be headed off with proper feedback from a PTR.

[Remus]

Yes a PTR is needed. There are so many things they have released which makes me wonder "why did you do that?" After seeing WHM I believe it is really needed badly. Just lock out story quests and make a test dungeon with level 70 mobs and allow people to pick the job they want to test. This way you can actually get player feedback instead of this internal testing which personally from what I have seen is not the best.

So many small simple issues could have been avoided if there was a PTR server.