A big Problem that MAY come up with Stormblood...

[Claire_Pendragon]

Nah, clearly because there are 2 new dps jobs EVERYONE is going to become a DPS, and only a DPS, because... reasons.

And those reasons are?

Were you not going to say whats been said hundreds of times by people, and just make it sound like you're misrepresenting their perspective, just to try and make them look worse to those who already agreed with you?

Some people wont change.
Some people will only temporarily change.
Some people will change.

all 3 of which do have reasons already stated here.

This includes;
They like the role no matter what.
They dont mind the changes.
They dont like the new jobs.
They only play the role due to lack of having what they really want.
They do mind the changes.
They do like the new jobs.

One voice that's hardly ever mentioned, is anyone saying "I'm going to stop being a DPS main, because the changes to tanks/healers looks fun."

So even if most of the tanks/healers stay or go back to tanks, thats still a decrease in tank/healer population, because there will be those who arent happy and have no intent on going back.
(They need to do some serious fixing to DRK for me to have any interest in it, and even then, doesnt look anywhere near as fun as RDM or AST for me. At best, I might try PLD, but there's issues that im not happy with on them too.)

[Zojha]

Somewhat off-topic, but from a game design perspective Tanks and Healers are in the game for far more reasons then "unavoidable damage".

No need to edit when the premise is already wrong.

They are there for one simple reason: Fantasy. Some people want the protector fantasy, other the samaritian fantasy. That much we can agree on. But that aside, it's really just un-avoidable damage - positionals, aggro and even aggro swaps can be facilitated in other ways (such as aggroing the closest person), you don't need dedicated tanks for that, nor do you need dedicated healers to reduce stress from avoidable damage - healing does not equate to dedicated healers. It also reduces teamwork, as jobs that would have to be done by everyone (like health/aggro management or even party support) can be assigned to the dedicated roles. It makes the game a lot easier, as it turns it more into a tank&spank (which is THE boss design of the trinity) where everyone only got one job, rather than something complex where people need to communicate. (At least, until boss mechanics ignore the trinity and target the DPS/healer anyway)

But arguing with me over "that" can get rather excessive, so it's best we just leave it at that.

[Aramina]

Stuffs.

Some will change to DPS. Some will change to Tank/Healer. Some will stay DPS. Some will stay Tank/Healer. We have no idea if the queues will get longer, shorter, or stay the same until Stormblood actually launches.

edit: Even if every single tank/healer in this thread said they were going dps and every dps said they were going to stay dps it is still too small of a sample to draw any firm conclusion from.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Some will change to DPS. Some will change to Tank/Healer. Some will stay DPS. Some will stay Tank/Healer. We have no idea if the queues will get longer, shorter, or stay the same until Stormblood actually launches.

edit: Even if every single tank/healer in this thread said they were going dps and every dps said they were going to stay dps it is still too small of a sample to draw any firm conclusion from.

Now this is the kind of statement that I'll agree with.

This is the best counter-argument for the concerns people have. (Though some people only say it with the intent to dismiss statements, rather than used as a reminder of the unknown.)

[Jandor]

Some will change to DPS. Some will change to Tank/Healer. Some will stay DPS. Some will stay Tank/Healer. We have no idea if the queues will get longer, shorter, or stay the same until Stormblood actually launches.

When HW launched, all roles had pretty good queue times for a while, every role had something new and people were keen to try them out. It stands to reason that doing the opposite will result in the opposite.

Things eventually stabilized out to where we are now, but thinking DPS queues wont get notably worse at SB launch seems naively optimistic.

[Felis]

When HW launched, all roles had pretty good queue times for a while, every role had something new and people were keen to try them out. It stands to reason that doing the opposite will result in the opposite.

DPS jobs had the "role in need" roulette bonus.

[Warlyx]

DPS jobs had the "role in need" roulette bonus.

drks helped tons on the first rush , died later on once ppl leveled the drk

come 4.0 we are going to have dps queues ? hell yes tons of ppl wanting to play rdm / sam ...but tanks and healers will still use DR leveling to get tons of exp , plus we have Potd so u can go as 4 sam 4 rdm or mix and still got some xp

[Jandor]

DPS jobs had the "role in need" roulette bonus.

They did, although the others queues were still pretty good. Sort of like if DPS got tank queues and everyone else got healer queues.

[Kaurie]

Some will change to DPS. Some will change to Tank/Healer. Some will stay DPS. Some will stay Tank/Healer. We have no idea if the queues will get longer, shorter, or stay the same until Stormblood actually launches.
edit: Even if every single tank/healer in this thread said they were going dps and every dps said they were going to stay dps it is still too small of a sample to draw any firm conclusion from.

We do have some idea. There have been polls (naturally the polls have response bias), but they've indicated quite a few tanks/healers going from those roles to DPS.

One such poll showed, with a response rate of over 3000:

Heavensward Role Distribution:
- DPS 52.5%
- Tank 22%
- Healer 25.5%

Stormblood Role Distribution:
- DPS 62.1%
- Tank 18.6%
- Healer 19,3%

There are 18.6% vs 22% tanks, that's almost a 20% drop in tanks in the queue AND an increase in DPS. So not only will it take 20% longer to find a tank, you will be 20% farther back in line in DPS. With that, you could expect a 144% increase in DPS queue times. To illustrate, say you queue on average to 50th place in line as a DPS, and every 5 positions takes 1 minute for a total 10 minute queue. Going forward, you will queue into 60th place in line, and every 5 positions will take 72 seconds. Your new total wait time is 864 seconds or 14.4 minutes.

Naturally, the poll has response bias, but we do know that at least at the time of the poll there were 120 tanks & 180 healers who responded that they will no longer tank in SB.

It's important to point out that the problem with the poll is the bias in sampling. This was a voluntary poll, one that would only be seen on reddit/the forum, so would not reach the entire playerbase. That said, the actual sample size is large enough to have the results be statistically significant.

Now, if you don't want to accept that polling information, we can also just make reasonable assumptions.
1. There are 2 new DPS classes that are highly sought after. This has a reasonable chance of attracting some tanks and healers.
2. White Mage has received a lot of criticism to their job, and has a reasonable chance of influencing players to switch away from healing.
3. A lot of DPS jobs got a lot of great changes, which might attract some tanks and healers to these jobs.
4. Overall, the healer and tank changes didn't receive as much love to attract people to the roles

Yes, I am sure that some DPS will change to tanks/healers, and some healers/tanks will change to DPS. However, based off everything we've seen, it seems highly likely that more healers/tanks will change to DPS than vice versa.

[SendohJin]

u

Are you for real? Didnt see thst the in need for this dungeon are dps.no one did fates after 51 for exp in hw.there will be no gopod exp in potd from 60 to 70 in 4.0 at last.

i have no idea what half of that says. the MSQ itself gives a lot of XP, you only need to do the other stuff so that you can level up to do the next MSQ.