A big Problem that MAY come up with Stormblood...

[usalia]

Seriously doubtful it lasts a few months. DPS are only doing the dungeons for the MSQ one time, then they can do quests, FATEs, PotD, Hunt Bills, PvP for XP.

u

Are you for real? Didnt see thst the in need for this dungeon are dps.no one did fates after 51 for exp in hw.there will be no gopod exp in potd from 60 to 70 in 4.0 at last.

[SendohJin]

u

Are you for real? Didnt see thst the in need for this dungeon are dps.no one did fates after 51 for exp in hw.there will be no gopod exp in potd from 60 to 70 in 4.0 at last.

i have no idea what half of that says. the MSQ itself gives a lot of XP, you only need to do the other stuff so that you can level up to do the next MSQ.

[Warlyx]

if SE needs to add a tank and a healer every expansion we have an issue :/

im sure more tanks and healers will come , but ppl wanted Sam and Rdm the most , putting Sam on tank wasnt a good idea ....however i think it would be a cool to start implementing jobs with dual roles Sam tank / dps , Rdm caster , healer. It would be unfair for other tank /healers jobs (well Sch excluded since it lvls smn too )

[usalia]

if SE needs to add a tank and a healer every expansion we have an issue :/

im sure more tanks and healers will come , but ppl wanted Sam and Rdm the most , putting Sam on tank wasnt a good idea ....however i think it would be a cool to start implementing jobs with dual roles Sam tank / dps , Rdm caster , healer. It would be unfair for other tank /healers jobs (well Sch excluded since it lvls smn too )

So if they add a dps its all good? You knnow why lol wotks so good as a game? They dont only add dd/adc.

[Dualgunner]

Because LoL and FFXIV are the same genre of game of course. Calm down, the sky isn't falling. Salty outrage will be more understandable if we get no new tanks or healers for 5.0.

[usalia]

First of all lol is a good way to add things to the game.
Then i hope we wont get new tanks for 5.0 as well.i will sell dungeon runs for the dpses.in the long run there just wont be as much tanks in 4.0 as there was in 3.0.

[Dualgunner]

How many classes does LoL have compared to XIV? How long has it been out? Can we really consider a MOBA to be that comparable to an MMORPG?

And you might be right, but so far the trend would suggest you are wrong. Total tank/Healer population didn't change in any meaningful way in 3.0, so that can be extrapolated to mean that the dps population likewise won't change too badly.

[Zojha]

Can we really consider a MOBA to be that comparable to an MMORPG?

Oh, it can be. And the most striking difference is: LoL and other MOBAs do not rely on roles. It doesn't need support champions, or tanks, or ADCs, or Assassins or any other archetype. The game works even if you'd remove those, strategies simply adjust accordingly.
Tanks and healers in an MMO however rely on being forced into the game via un-avoidable damage, so not having those makes content unplayable.

That's why it's a somewhat bigger topic in MMOs than in MOBAs. And personally, I do expect healer and tank population to drop - not necessarily because of new DPS, but because the only really hot looking tank seems to be PLD, while the only really great looking healer seems to be AST. The rest just seems "meh".

[Claymore65]

Oh, it can be. And the most striking difference is: LoL and other MOBAs do not rely on roles. It doesn't need support champions, or tanks, or ADCs, or Assassins or any other archetype. The game works even if you'd remove those, strategies simply adjust accordingly.
Tanks and healers in an MMO however rely on being forced into the game via un-avoidable damage, so not having those makes content unplayable. Tanks and healers in an MMO however rely on being forced into the game via un-avoidable damage, so not having those makes content unplayable.

Somewhat off-topic, but from a game design perspective Tanks and Healers are in the game for far more reasons then "unavoidable damage". It's primarily to enforce Teamwork within the dungeon environment, but has many other major benefits. For example, Tanking allows the positioning of the boss/monsters to have a major effect on the battle. Without a single Tank, this kind of positioning gets drastically more difficult. Healers allow recovery from both avoidable and unavoidable damage to reduce stress. Tanks and Healers also support different kinds of player fantasies then damage dealers typically do. Oftentimes, playing a Tank gives a leadership role that DPS classes have trouble replicating, while Healer classes fill out a "Support" player fantasy especially well. Games without the "Holy Trinity" have a drastically different feel to them. I've found they often struggle to encourage Teamwork, although your mileage may vary on that regard. Even Guild Wars 2, previously the poster boy for "MMORpgs without the Holy Trinity", ended up redesigning their end game dungeons to basically have Tanks and Healers. That's not to say games without the "Holy Trinity" are bad, it's just a very different design paradigm that comes with its own advantages and pitfalls. The issue is far more complex then just "forced into game via unavoidable damage". Sorry for the off-topic.

Back to on-topic. I do agree that queues are going to be rough for the first few months. There is a lot of exciting new content that might shift players away from Tanks and Healers, but not a whole lot that will bring in new players to the role. For every player who shifts their main to a DPS Job, we probably won't get one to replace them. That's not to say content will become unplayable, far from it, but the first few months will be rough. Once people have leveled their shiny new classes, plenty of people will go back to level tanks/healers. Plus, if the queues are bad enough, I'm sure some people might try Tanks/Healers solely to avoid the queue times.

hat's why it's a somewhat bigger topic in MMOs than in MOBAs. And personally, I do expect healer and tank population to drop - not necessarily because of new DPS, but because the only really hot looking tank seems to be PLD, while the only really great looking healer seems to be AST. The rest just seems "meh".

I do mostly agree with this, however. As a Dark Knight main, the changes seem underwhelming. Not necessarily bad, just underwhelming compared to what, for example, Bards are receiving. The rest of the Tank changes vary from fine (Warrior) to excellent (Paladin), but healers seem to be a bit more mixed. SCH got some nice utility coupled with some severe AOE damage nerfs, while the changes to White Mage seem questionable, although hopefully they've been tweaked before release. The whole "Tanks/Healers get balance while DPS gets new Classes" rhetoric in the fan fest was a bit irritating, especially considering the end result, but I can't say I'm surprised. Oh well, as long as we receive new Tanks/Healers in 5.0, it'll be fine. We'll have something to draw players back into the role, at least for a little while.

[Zojha]

Somewhat off-topic, but from a game design perspective Tanks and Healers are in the game for far more reasons then "unavoidable damage".

No need to edit when the premise is already wrong.

They are there for one simple reason: Fantasy. Some people want the protector fantasy, other the samaritian fantasy. That much we can agree on. But that aside, it's really just un-avoidable damage - positionals, aggro and even aggro swaps can be facilitated in other ways (such as aggroing the closest person), you don't need dedicated tanks for that, nor do you need dedicated healers to reduce stress from avoidable damage - healing does not equate to dedicated healers. It also reduces teamwork, as jobs that would have to be done by everyone (like health/aggro management or even party support) can be assigned to the dedicated roles. It makes the game a lot easier, as it turns it more into a tank&spank (which is THE boss design of the trinity) where everyone only got one job, rather than something complex where people need to communicate. (At least, until boss mechanics ignore the trinity and target the DPS/healer anyway)

But arguing with me over "that" can get rather excessive, so it's best we just leave it at that.