Thread: Warrior 4.0 Concerns

Originally Posted by bswpayton

I highly doubt that tanks are gona stop tankin in ot stance it doesnt matter what se tries to do ha ,

Some tanks will try, but are very likely to find out that they just do not have the enmity generation they used to.

Tanks are losing about 10% of their AP from main stat at i270 this is going increase the gap between tank and dps AP by about 50% and the gap will continue to grow as tanks will not be getting Str from accessories and dps will be getting main stat from theirs.

Berserk+Unchain pulls are also being nerfed due to berserk and the beast gauge change.

Originally Posted by aleph_null

Well at least most of the raiders that I know are expecting the new tier to be similar to creator in difficulty level, so I highly doubt that. You also need to consider that the majority of "raiders" are still stuck in the MT/OT, MH/OT mentality, so the amount of mitigation they can achieve can be achieved by good raiders by coordinating tank swaps and healing cds. If you make it necessary for the good raiders to be in tank stance most of the time, the average raiders won't be able to clear the content, which will probably repeat the gordias-midas-creator cycle again.

Difficulty is different than enmity needs. The same level of difficulty/complexity as Creator doesn't mean anything if the tank can't hold enmity in DpS stance.

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Some tanks will try, but are very likely to find out that they just do not have the enmity generation they used to.

a fair amount of jobs got their damage nerfed monk being one , in a raid with coordination Im pretty sure tanks will continue to do as they do now, Also many dps are losing offesive buffs as well pretty much one per job with the exception of a few. In dungeons consider the wide vareity of players u get it will still be easy to tank in ot stance simply due to the fact that many dps do not know how to deal enough damage to warrent putting it on. I believe this is just SE effort to try and stop wats being going on but I highly doubt that its going to change the way people play.


I recall while just lookin at the videos of each job in action while tanks dps looked pretty similar to how it does now. I also notice that many dps where dealing around the same amount of damage as they are now as well.

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Difficulty is different than enmity needs. The same level of difficulty/complexity as Creator doesn't mean anything if the tank can't hold enmity in DpS stance.

With shirk and diversion I don't think we'll have too much problem with enmity, especially now that we can weave two butcher's block combo between eye combos. The only jobs that don't have enmity control are brd and mch. Of course if it's absolutely necessary to be in tank stance to hold aggro, we'll do it, like it or not. But the bigger the cost of swapping stance, the more valuable nin's utilities become. I wouldn't be surprised if drg/nin/mch/brd become the optimal composition again if that's the case.

Originally Posted by saber_alter

Because raw data is a bigger instrument of change than the vocal minority.

A very small amount of people are actually part of this official forum, and while they do hear (for better or for worse) us it is more often than not taken with a grain of salt.

however, if people stop playing a job all together; if the amount of people clearing endgame content with X job is much lower than projected expectations that is how you get a developer's attention. It is somewhat similar to shifting metas pvp based games. "x weapon/character/class is intrinsically superior to the majority", so the majority ends up using that exclusively.

Yeah of course it'll be easier to notice once the damage has been done. We don't need to wait for a whole raid tier to see how some jobs could be better or worse than other jobs. I'm not saying war is broken or completely unviable, our concerns are relatively minor compared to whm's. In whm's case we can see that the lily system is broken (in a bad way) without even playing it.

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

True, but I doubt it.

That combo (while strong) takes up two of both tank's role skill slots. Several of those skill slots might be better served in a fight by other choices.

Well if it's true that dps will have really high aggro generation my static will probably bring a nin, problem solved.

As for role skills, it's not like the other options are really good anyway. Stun/silence are situational, you can slot them in when you need them. Awareness is quite meh other than in fight with guaranteed crits. Anticipation is most likely useless. Ultimatum is either unnecessary or absolutely necessary, swap with provoke depending on whether you need it. That leaves you with provoke, conva, shirk, rampart and reprisal. Depending on the amount of aggro dps generates I'd consider swapping shirk out for stun/silence when needed, but most likely conva would go out first since it's highly situational, and losing it probably wouldn't cost as much healer dps than the tanks lose by having to repeatedly use aggro combo.

Originally Posted by aqskerorokero

Never pass your mind that you can stance dance when the gauge is empty XD?

The only time that works is when you're about to IB a tank buster and swap into deliverance, otherwise when IB is not needed you'll just waste your gauge on an unneeded mitigation/heal. On the other hand when you need to go into defiance for mitigation, using up your gauge means you need to build it over from 0, which takes at least 6 gcds for one IB, so it's not worth it (25% dmg reduction on 6 gcd vs losing 1 fell cleave). The current war pull rotation works really well because the stacks you build during defiance transfers to deliverance with no penalty, so after your butcher's block combo you can switch to deliverance and start using fell cleave. Let me know if you have figured out a good 4.0 rotation for pulling in defiance and swapping into deliverance without delaying berserk for too long.