Summoner and the upcoming changes

[Vulcwen]

Don't forget that bane does 0 damage on the first target, as that's what you're spreading from, while painflare does do damage to that.
A table that compares them (max duration is simply 10 times of the 1-tick version):

Targets Painflare Bane (1 tick) Bane (5 ticks)
1       200       0             0
2       400       80            400
3       600       144           720
4       800       192           960
5       1000      224           1120
6       1200      240           1200
7       1400      256           1280

If you think the fight will last 15s or longer, use bane, if you think it's shorter, use bane anyway, but just to get in DWT after 5s.

[Brinzy]

Don't forget that bane does 0 damage on the first target, as that's what you're spreading from, while painflare does do damage to that.
A table that compares them (max duration is simply 10 times of the 1-tick version):

Targets Painflare Bane (1 tick) Bane (5 ticks)
1       200       0             0
2       400       80            400
3       600       144           720
4       800       192           960
5       1000      224           1120
6       1200      240           1200
7       1400      256           1280

If you think the fight will last 15s or longer, use bane, if you think it's shorter, use bane anyway, but just to get in DWT after 5s.

Really good catch, I forgot about that.

[PotatoTree]

It kind of also sucks that:

- a good SMN should have low MP due to R3 spam, meaning we can't mana shift as well as the other casters. Plus losing mp really hurts us.
- if you ever get fettered or stunned (like in Susano) while in trance or while bahamut is up, say goodbye to your dps
- the setup time is so long that you're forced to do your burst at horrible times or you end up waiting and unable to cast AF (can't store AF)
- lock on contagion when in bahamut really sucks

They should just make bahamut auto attack. We don't have much leeway in terms of when to optimally use it without clipping into the next AF cooldown, so we might have to use it during a bad time where we can't cast.

[Tsumdere]

I have quite a few things to say about SMN but it's just mirroring what everyone else is saying. No - it's DPS is top tier if you're PERFECT (and 99% of people are not). But it's a clunky, unintuitive mess of a class that is simultaneously boring (Ruin spam anyone) and difficult, not because of rotation, but because one simple misclick can cost you 1-2 minutes of DPS.

I won't be surprised if it gets a rework a la BRD.

If you REALLY love books, togas, and hurting yourself, by all means keep playing summoner. More power to you. But you can play BLM and RDM with the same (if not better) results for significantly less effort and without babysitting a dumb squirrel that keeps sticking it's paws in electrical outlets.

[Achelon]

Thank you guys!
So I should just DoT up one enemy, Bane to spread DoTs and then use the other 2 stacks on Painflare for the maximum damage amount.

About the other question, can anyone give me a good and math proven answer about should I use Ruin I or Ruin III outside of Trance? Until now I've been using Ruin I and I've seen people on streams and youtube doing both things, Ruin I or Ruin III, so I don't know anymore which one is better.

I know that class has gotten so more difficult and "clunky" but I still love playing it, and I gotta say that the emotion and hype for using Bahamut, for me, makes it up for everything else. Those 20s...oh Gosh...I'm so happy :'D

[Nerisu]

Thank you guys!
So I should just DoT up one enemy, Bane to spread DoTs and then use the other 2 stacks on Painflare for the maximum damage amount.

About the other question, can anyone give me a good and math proven answer about should I use Ruin I or Ruin III outside of Trance? Until now I've been using Ruin I and I've seen people on streams and youtube doing both things, Ruin I or Ruin III, so I don't know anymore which one is better.

I know that class has gotten so more difficult and "clunky" but I still love playing it, and I gotta say that the emotion and hype for using Bahamut, for me, makes it up for everything else. Those 20s...oh Gosh...I'm so happy :'D

I usually just spam Ruin III until I have around 3-4k MP and switch to Ruin from there. I kinda wish some of the things in PVP were in PVE too like 100% Ruin IV during trance, consolidated buttons for Summon and Enkindle Bahamut and the ability to summon Demi-Bahamut every after trance.

[Sunako]

Thank you guys!
So I should just DoT up one enemy, Bane to spread DoTs and then use the other 2 stacks on Painflare for the maximum damage amount.

About the other question, can anyone give me a good and math proven answer about should I use Ruin I or Ruin III outside of Trance? Until now I've been using Ruin I and I've seen people on streams and youtube doing both things, Ruin I or Ruin III, so I don't know anymore which one is better.

I know that class has gotten so more difficult and "clunky" but I still love playing it, and I gotta say that the emotion and hype for using Bahamut, for me, makes it up for everything else. Those 20s...oh Gosh...I'm so happy :'D

what else you would use your mana for? Use ruin 3 until you have 50% mana and save some mana for ress and mana swap if needed, ideally you want end fight with nearly zero mana. You get lot mana from lucid dreaming and aetherflows. ruin1 cost is really low and dots rarely need even applied. Only way you get benefit from your mana pool is using ruin 3. If your party have bard with mana buffs you can spam even more ruin 3.

[ThirdKeyOfSun]

Is there really never ever a reason to use Tri-bind for AoE damage? Like if you have already spread dots and there are no aether charges left to burn?

[Keian]

Is there really never ever a reason to use Tri-bind for AoE damage? Like if you have already spread dots and there are no aether charges left to burn?

now that you mention it, it might be better than spamming ruin3. especially if there is more than 5 enemies present it's currently 220 mana cheaper plus you would be doing 30 potency more per target :/
it used to be really dumb and useless but seeing as the devs are more so... should probably give it a try. idk about the cast time, it's a little bit longer than ruin 3...

[Eclesis]

Can't speak for endgame but the Sustain change really bites for solo and leveling instances. I stopped playing at the end of ARR due to not having enough time and a poor computer, recently came back and the class feels amazingly awkward. If it's supposed be more pet and less DOT why was the main pet survivability tool removed? I picked Summoner originally because I'm a casual who mostly likes doing story/overworld/FATES etc. and a pet class was great for that - if I'd wanted an exciting life of trying to get spells off while getting smacked in the face I'd have gone with BLM. Potato-Egi melts way too fast vs FATE and overworld mobs, and some bosses' AoEs completely obliterate Garuda/Ifrit - Physic just doesn't cut it at 400 HP a pop and I'm pretty sure my job in instances is not "heal-spam my pet".

I'm liking the Heavensward story enough to finish it, but probably won't stick around after that - really wish I'd done the playthrough a couple of months ago.