White mage ideas to make them unique (using lillies)

[SirDiscoFrog]

For me I feel like the lilies need more ways of being obtained besides just Cure I/II. This alone would buff the whole mechanic tremendously.

-Cure I/II 20% chance per cast
-Regen 5% per tick of healing done.
(Could even go another step further and include AoE)
-Medica I/Cure III 5% or 10% per player healed
-Medica II 5% on initial cast and 2% per tick done per person.

And to help with avoiding just having hots up/spamming cure for funsies they could make it so that the target has to be under 100% when the tick/heal is applied (tho personally id prefer they didn't do this to Cure I just to allow a non damaging way to farm lilies outside of combat/so cure I spammers don't get too upset lol). Allowing regens to proc lilies also doesn't punish players DPS'ing so long as they at least have a regen up.


Personally from there I'd change the benefits of the lilies to give the next oGCD used an additional effect or just customize the lily procs per ability.

Like maybe instead of Divine Benison being a flat 15% no matter how many lilies maybe it goes up depending on the lilies you expend (15%/18%/20%) or maybe (12%/15%/18%) This even gives a nod to the original Stoneskin trait that made it from 10% to 18%.

Assize could get a buff Dmg/Healing Potency wise depending on the lilies you expend. 300 potency to (400/500/600) potency or maybe even restoring more MP.

Tetragrammaton could get a (50/75/100) potency regen attached to it depending on the lilies used up.

Asylum personally I can only think of giving it a cooldown reduction or (this might be a tad over powered) it could also increase the healing done to those inside it or flat out increase the Mind stat of those inside it or just the WHM that casted it. Might be a bit much, but with WHM's Divine Veil getting put into Cross Role, having this would not only give them another option for themselves already in their kit, but also could help their Co-healers giving some raid utility.


I mean I like the base idea of the lilies and I understand them wanting WHM to be a pure healer, but it defiantly needs some fine tuning and buffing to help it stand out. I mean the lily mechanic suffers the same issues mechanically wise as the Spear Card and Old Insta-cast Benefic procs seeing as though most folk will be planning and timing out when they use these cooldowns/heals. Shaving off a handful of seconds (or up to 12-19 seconds if you hold off casting an oGCD long enough to rack up 3 lilies) is okay I guess, but doesn't feel very active or appealing which is a tad disappointing especially when looking at SCH's fairy tether heal or AST's card gauge/new cards.

Thinking about the Benefic/Cure I procs, maybe the % chance doesn't need to be that fine tuned but I still think it should also be applicable for their other spells besides Cure I/II simply to discourage only using Cure I/II.

[Angel_Corlux]

Yet here you are doing it for yourself.

Knock yourself out, Bucko. Actively avoid the multitude of threads that fulfill the discussion you apparently don't even want to have just to throw a hammer into the only positive thread to come out on the subject today. But y'know, you do you.

The literal point of the thread is to actively avoid the reality of WHM at the moment and have a fun brainstorm. Again, you intentionally just couldn't have that happening. Fun campfire brainstorm ended due to the screeching Doomsayer- Don't have enough of that in-

-PLEASE rethink where you're taking WHM, SE...
-Any other WHMs debating quitting the game?
-#RIPWHM
-Delete WHM
-4.0 WHM

But naturally your ideas would melt together with the identical ones so here you are.

I think it's really interesting how dramatic you are, you keep freaking out about me making a simple comment of my opinion to say that suggestions/brainstorming, although possibly fun, are pointless when there is such a colossal failure in game design. Yet at the same time I'm the one 'screeching doom'? lol

You're the only one that can't seem to handle some stranger's opinion. I don't have a problem with anyone suggesting/theorizing improvements, have at it, I hope and dream that they actually make tons of changes and make WHM epic as it should be. But it's also my opinion that any suggestions at this point are pointless because of how completely they've failed at updating WHM for Stormblood.

That's my opinion, deal with it.

[Airget]

Rework Cleric Stance, remove it from Cross-Class since honestly as it's reworked it's a pretty lame ability and tie it more into how WHM could work better with the Lillies.

"Cleric Stance" At the cost of 20% healing potency, enter a stance which begins to build up Lily and confessions to use certain abilities. (Lillies and Confessions aren't lost when you turn off Cleric Stance)*Only build up during combat

So basically by sacrificing 1/5 of your healing potency during combat you can begin to build up these gimmicks to use the new abiltiies that WHM has.

The idea is that at it's base WHM can already heal by a lot, so by having an ability which puts a limiter on themselves they can build up that excess Healing for other moments in combat in which they need more healing power.

[KisaiTenshi]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/n...reply&t=326525

For me I feel like the lilies need more ways of being obtained besides just Cure I/II. This alone would buff the whole mechanic tremendously.

-Cure I/II 20% chance per cast
-Regen 5% per tick of healing done.
(Could even go another step further and include AoE)
-Medica I/Cure III 5% or 10% per player healed
-Medica II 5% on initial cast and 2% per tick done per person.

And to help with avoiding just having hots up/spamming cure for funsies they could make it so that the target has to be under 100% when the tick/heal is applied (tho personally id prefer they didn't do this to Cure I just to allow a non damaging way to farm lilies outside of combat/so cure I spammers don't get too upset lol). Allowing regens to proc lilies also doesn't punish players DPS'ing so long as they at least have a regen up.

I think the entire reason it's not on HoT's is because the game treats the regen ticks as the same as casting cure at potency 150 (Regen) or 50 (Medica II), so every two ticks = the same as casting Cure I. 1 tick every 3 seconds. Ticks are aligned to the target. So if you could get 3 lilies from just casting Regen once, it's too easy.

The entire problem (at least consistent problem) in complaints is the RNG Proc's aspect of WHM. With DPS, the Proc's are just bonus things and in the case of the BLM, entirely meaningless since MP regenerates faster than you can can cast ice magic, and all the Proc gives you on the fire side is one additional shot. With the WHM, the free cure(15%), enhanced medica (20%), and overcure(15%) all have low rates in the first place. I see freecure all the time, but I don't cast Cure II unless something calls for Cure II. That's the entire problem here. The Proc's are not guaranteed, so if you somehow never see one the entire time you're healing, you may actually end up short on MP. Where as BLM? Just switch over to Ice and you're back.

So how does the lilies tie into this? Well if you're doing Cure I + Cure II and spot healing instead of overhealing, then the chances for the lilies are about the same as the proc's, about 20%.

Like we do need to give this system a try before everyone gives SE hell for it. If we go into it assuming that it's stupid, then we have formed a bias towards it already, and won't even give it a chance. Every combat job is getting some variation of a "meter", but the only job anyone is complaining about is WHM... without having any data. Before the Embargo was released, there were STILL 2 threads on the general forum and one in the healer forum complaining about which WHM mechanics are lazy WHM mechanics. Then that ballooned into 5.

[Ceasaria]

Secret of Lily :
Not based anymore on % chance, but instead would grow the flower step by step (it's a gauge flower).
All your heals would increase the gauge (overheal don't work), DPS too but less.
When the gauge flower is at its maximum, you can release its power which would transform some of your spells during 15 sec.
When you use a spell transformed it can't be used again during the duration of the transe.
You can use a maximum of 3 spells transformed.

Fluid Aura become Cascade.
Cascade : Deal water damage with a potency of 200 to nearby enemies.
Additional Effect: Water damage over time with a potency of 60 for 12s.
MP Cost : 2x Aero III
Cast Time : Instant
Cooldown : 2.5 sec
Range : 0y
Radius : 10y

Raise become Arise.
Arise : Resurrects target without weakened state and with full life.
MP Cost : 1,25x Raise
Cast Time : 5 sec
Cooldown : 2.5 sec
Range : 30y
Radius 0y

Holy become Ultima.
Ultima : Deal damage to target with a potency of 400 and 250 to all nearby enemies.
It's considered as 2 spells.
MP Cost : 3x Holy
Cast Time : 3 sec
Cooldown : 120 sec
Range : 25y
Radius : 15y

Benediction become Phoenix Benediction.
Phoenix Benediction : Restores all of a target's HP.
Additional Effect : The target is raised automatically with low HP and weakened state if he die.
MP Cost : 0
Cast Time : Instant
Cooldown : 180 sec
Range : 30y
Radius : 0y


Secret of Lily II : add additionnals transformations. You can use now a maximum of 5 spells transformed.

Stone IV become Quake.
Quake : Deal earth damage with a potency of 250 to target.
Additional Effect : Magic damage deal to target are increased by 10% for 12 sec.
MP Cost : 1,75x Stone IV
Cast Time : 2,5 sec
Cooldown : 2.5 sec
Range : 25y
Radius : 0y

Aero III become Tornado.
Tornado : Deals wind damage with a potency of 150 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Channeling Effect : Wind damage with a potency of 75 every 2 sec.
MP Cost : 1,5x Aero III
Cast Time : 2.5 sec (more if the player is channeling)
Cooldown : 2.5 sec
Range : 25y
Radius : 10y

Divine Bension become Stoneskin.
Stoneskin : Creates a barrier around self and all party members near you that absorbs damage totaling 15% of maximum HP.
MP Cost : 0
Cast Time : Instant
Cooldown : 2.5 sec
Range : 0y
Radius : 15y


PS : If the WHM plays very well, he can fill his gauge in 1 min.
PS2 : because WHM don't like chance, traits freecure and overcure will be removed.

[Brae]

Since im pretty disappointed (to a level where i would appear in the forums) in the WHM rework, I also came up with a few thoughts to save Whitemage using flower power. If the doomsday prophecys come true, SE has a lot of inspiration in the forums to work with.

Secrets of the Lily I:
25% Chance on each Cure I or II cast to obtain a lily
Obtain a Lily every time a Regen ticks critically
Rest of the trait unchanged

This change should allow the Whitemage to build up lilys more reliably while no longer forcing him to spam cure 1 or 2 to make use of his new system

Replacement for the lv 40 Job skill: Enduring Regeneration (trait)
Casting Cure on a target increases the remaining duration of Regen on that target by 2 second
Casting Cure II on a target increases the remaining duration of Regen on that Target by 3 seconds

This trait adds more flow to generating healing lilys and gives the WHM more time to help with dps (and replaces the Divine Seal we lost, RiP our lord and savior)

Replacement for SotL II: Secrets of the Rose I (trait)
Everytime one of your Wind dots ticks critically on a target, you obtain a Wind rose (up to 3)
You can only obtain one wind Rose every 5 sceonds
On 3 wind roses, you can cast Wind Petal, a ogcd 200 Pot. Skill.

Instead of flat reducing the cast time of assize to spam it, weaving in damage spells (at least Dots) into your rotation should be rewarded. This trait would also add to the WHM philosophy. The WHM doesnt increases the partys Damage, he brings the damage himself.
On the Job UI, this trait would be a mirrored Version of the current UI added to the lilys, but with green flowers. (Lack of Photoshop/Paint skills doesnt allow visual demonstration)

Alone these 3 tweaks would fix WHM to a level where he can really compete with AST and SCH and make him a lot more flexible in Dungeon and Raid

I know this would force WHM to stack crit, but these trait could also be rewritten to match a more general Idea

Additional thoughts and ideas:


Plenary indulgence
When Plenary Indulgence hits a Target without a confession stack, that target gains a confession stack

Since PI is pretty much nothing else than an additional tetra on the tank available every 15 seconds, this little change would also include a bit of tactics in the WHM gameplay. (Even though this change could replace medica if I messed up here, that’s why its under additional stuff)

A Trait called „Tears of the Amdapori“
Everytime one type of your flowers reaches 3 Stacks, you obtain one (of five) petals of the Lunar Tear
When the Lunar Tear is complete, you can use either decay of the Amdapori or Mercy of the Amdapori.
When the lunar tear blooms, your potencies are increased by 5%. The lunar tear fades after 15 seconds.

Decay of the Amdapori
Increases the targets damage taken by 5% for 10 seconds (2min CD)

Mercy of the Amdapori
The next time the targeted ally would die, he is revived with 50% HP and MP. The target still loses its enmity, but doesnt gain a Weakness stack.
This Effect lasts 10 seconds with a 30 second cooldown.

These 4 Ideas would fit if the Goal would be to bring more utility to WHM. The basic idea would be that the WHM doesnt use all of his lunar tears, but combines them with Cleric to generate damage spikes on his own. All 2 mins, he adds a bit to boss damage, and is also able to save Party members from being weakened.
The UI for this trait would be located on top of the WHM Job UI.
And yes, the Lunar Tear was straight up stolen from NieR Automata.

[SirDiscoFrog]

I think the entire reason it's not on HoT's is because the game treats the regen ticks as the same as casting cure at potency 150 (Regen) or 50 (Medica II), so every two ticks = the same as casting Cure I. 1 tick every 3 seconds. Ticks are aligned to the target. So if you could get 3 lilies from just casting Regen once, it's too easy.

I'm aware of how HoTs work which is why I proposed the each tick being a reduced percentage, how low of a percentage can be up for grabs or they could even just solely base it off the initial casting of a Regen instead of the actual heals. Could even have the percentage chance decay as the regen ticks. There are ways around that.

The point of including Regens and AoEs are that those are very frequently used compared to Cure I/II. While in heavier hitting content Cure I/II is used a bit more, in most content you can get away with just regens, oGCD heals and medicas for AoE damage per boss fight. Most dungeons and 24 man raids my main tool of burst healing is Tetra and besides that I'm using various Regens, maybe casting Cure 1 once or twice. In raid content I am Curing a bit more but typically it about 2-3 Cures whenever I need it just to help top up someone.

Well if you're doing Cure I + Cure II and spot healing instead of overhealing, then the chances for the lilies are about the same as the proc's, about 20%.

Which I also mentioned at the end of my post, that it does remind me of the Cure/Benefic proc system right now to which while the number seems low does happen an okay amount, but the issue I am seeing is the fact that the idea of it being cool down reduction is very passive and not exciting and doesn't give any rewards for using your other healing GCD tools.

Like we do need to give this system a try before everyone gives SE hell for it. If we go into it assuming that it's stupid, then we have formed a bias towards it already, and won't even give it a chance. Every combat job is getting some variation of a "meter", but the only job anyone is complaining about is WHM... without having any data.

The thing is we do have something here, what they have presented to us is allowed to be critiqued and those who went to the media tour got to actually test it and have been sharing what it does as well as their thoughts on it. This is a good time to critique what is going on so when it is released they have an idea of why people may not like it. (Now I say critique, not just whining or pushing the mentality of WHM being dead. This does not help, just frustrates people and pushes away those who still like WHM)


To hit your point about the other job gauges, yeah WHM is the only ones having major complaints because all the other gauges are tied to their new abilities and/or livens up their old abilities. They are just more exciting/interactive.

-WARs got their 6 Fell Cleave wet dream with their new resource/gauge,
-PLDs now have a resource for their Sheltron and 2 other abilities from taking hits or doing damage which makes sense with Shield Oath being a tank stance and Sword being for DPSing,
-DRK has a new resource that powers up 2 of their new moves and can be gained with 2 abilities DRKs use all the time (Blood Weapon/Blood Price) and with their new shield.
-AST gauge doesn't offer anything new but their new cards and abilities easily make up for it.
-SCH's gauge gives their fairy a charged concentrated heal that is rewarded for using up Aetherstacks which happens frequently.
-BRD/MCH gauges has completely changed up their play-style (potentially) for the better.
-BLM's gauge didn't add too much, yeah but same as AST their new abilities that also interact with the gauge makes up for it.
-SMNs got Bahamut, the end.
-Most of NIN's/DRG's new abilities uses resources from the new meter and their attacks fuel it.
-MNK (which is in a similar boat as WHM as of 3.X of folk wanting more from it) got some great utility as well as buffs for their old abilities. And similar to AST their gauge doesn't offer anything new but makes it very handy for viewing their old resources and their new abilities are quite exciting.

For WHM their new abilities are okay-
-Divine Benison became the new Stoneskin on a minute CD
-Plenary Indulgence so far is just an extra Tetra on the tank unless they edit how Confession stacks work as atm you get healed based on Confession stacks and you only get a chance at having a stack if you get a Cure I/II.
-Stone IV is Stone IV
-Thin Air is probably the one ability that looks exciting from the start.

But then they lost 5 abilities to the cross role system and their new gauge only gets charged from 2 spells of their whole kit and you have no control over when its used besides just holding off on using the listed abilities.And all of this is not looking at potencies which are definitely subject to change, but just what the abilities actually do.

Cooldown reduction might be okay depending on how the numbers pan out, but its very passive and lacks appeal compared to having a more concrete solid effect/ability. It might just need a little tweaking to feel good, but it just looks underwhelming.


Like I said at the end of my post, I like the base idea of it. By no means do I think its stupid nor did I say so at all and while I'd like to see the lily system improved, I don't think WHM is 'doomed' persay, just needs a few tweaks/additions to help make WHM as appealing while still setting them apart from the other healers.

[Ceasaria]

To the community team : put this thread in the "Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread", ty.

[Mysticales]

I agree with the FFXI ability.

Would be nice to be able to do some cures that auto apply a stoneskin again. Since this is XIV, could be a time duration on how long stone skins would be applied for.