The White Mage lily mechanic could add some much needed fun to the job

[chesnaught]

Really just posting this in hopes that the developers can see some constructive criticism for what they have shown us of White Mage so far. I think the lilies are definitely a step in the right direction. However, I don't understand why they proc from Cure and Cure II only.

With a 20% proc rate, you will need an average of 15 Cure I or Cure II to get 3 lilies. Now, for me and for most white mages I know, in an entire dungeon run I barely use Cure even twice because Regen, Medica 2, Asylum, Tetra, etc are all very great skills that can take care of most healing, not to mention Holy's stun lock. That means I am going most of my dungeons with zero lilies, unless outgoing damage from bosses and trash has been increased so significantly that healers must use most GCDs on their single target heals (in this case, I will be very impressed at the huge change!)

I think White Mage would be in a great place if only Lilies and perhaps Confession stacks could proc from either any healing GCD including Medica/Medica 2/Regen/Cure I/II/III, perhaps just ticks of healing over time (at a lower rate than 20%), or even from DPS skills like Holy or Stone. All of these are skills that most White Mages use more than Cure in both dungeons and raids.

Even in a raid, as someone who has played White Mage in all raids since ARR, it would be very unusual for me to use Cure even 30 times, or about 6 lilies throughout the raid.

Like I said, maybe the damage output in dungeons and raids is going to be increased in number and frequency so much that healers need to spend most of their time using single target heals like Cure and Cure II. However, through all of ARR and HW that has not been the case.

As a more minor suggestion, maybe some control over when lilies are spent would be nice. Divine Benison is cool, but with Assize, Tetra, and Asylum all consuming lilies upon use, those are pretty frequently used skills in our tool kit and I don't see us being able to hold on to lilies for very long (if we are even able to generate them in the first place).

Anyway, with the simple change of how lilies and possibly Confession stacks are generated, I think white mage could be in a fun place for Stormblood. I look forward to the developers hopefully working with us on White Mage in the future .

[Fife_Muggins]

^This 100%. Make lilies and confession stacks proc off of regen ticks which you should be keeping up, not over-healing with cures. This immediately make plenary indulgence something very useful rather than a poor proc-based version of tetra which is what it will be since you are usually only putting cures on the tank.

Then if you add one offensive cooldown that you would want to being using every time it's up, you now have a great use for the lilies. It can be a party buff or even straight dps. I'm trying to use tetra, asylum, etc. when I need them, not on cd. I hope SE is looking the the feedback they are getting.

[Docteur_Fluttershy]

The sad truth atm is, the whole lillies mechanic is worse than just an AST drawing a spear.

Spear: reduce cooldown for 10-15% (enhanced or not), last 30-70s (self), effective on all spells

Lillies: 3 lillies consumed for 20% reduced cooldown for ONE capacity. 20% chance of getting a lilly per cure cast, as said up there, so requires GCD.

truly sad

[Reiryuu]

Well... let's put it this way.

Watching paint dry COULD be fun. Am I about to do it when there are so many other things out there in life that look a *lot* more fun? No. Why should I play a job that clearly did not get the love that not only I felt it deserved, but a lot of other people also felt it deserved when clearly so many other jobs got a lot more love.

I mean just look at whm compared to the other 2 healing options alone: with AST you have cards to pull, hell you create the image of an entire starry sky at your very whim now. SCH have their fairy to play with (not my cup of tea personally, but what does whm have?) and the new buff looks very scholarly and rather cool. They whm in comparison... lots of bubbly effects and one that literally looks like they're dumping a huge bucket of water on their heads as if praying to wake up from the horrible horrible dream they've been placed in. Gameplay wise, you literally have to SPAM cure I and cure II just to access most of your new abilities... even if your party doesn't need it... does that sound like fun to you? People complain about tanks 1-2-3 1-2-3 all the time. WHM has become 1-2 1-2 1-2 oh, proc... I guess 3 now. And yes, I realize that's an oversimplification but so was the 1-2-3 complaint that many people had about tanks.

[KDSilver]

I agree with all you said Chesnaught.
Lilies and confessions stack should proc based on other skills that just cure and cure ii because... as you said, we don't use this that much.

Regens make a better candidate to grant proc than cure.

[Cheremia]

Why not make the Lillies prog through the regens. Albeit a low % but if it heals hp it can prog. And from Asylum too, don't forget Asylum. Like for regen it doesn't NEED to be high prog because you normally keep regen on everything and everyone gets a bit of damage from SOMETHING. Field Aoes, prey, whatever

As for the effect, why not make it stupid simple? Give WHM an extra button that gives party members a bit max HP depending on the amount of Lillies you have and maybe something like a pseudo Bloodbath. Your party members regenerate health when they attack while... whatever is active? Not going to say it's a good idea or something but it would at least benefit the whole group instead of a weird kind of stoneskin on one person. Especially with that cooldown.
And make it that no Lillies can be generated as long as the thing is active? You even could throw in a slight mp/tp usage reduce for your party, something...

That new SCH skill would fit WHM... that witht he 50% hp.

[Gemina]

We cast Regen too much. Consistently getting three lilies would be OP, which is why it's gated behind not only rng, but our least used spells as well.

The lily system isn't going to reward the way we currently play WHM, but you can still very likely play that and get your occasional 1-2 Lily CD reduction. If you want greater CD reduction then you have to figure out how to weave cures in without over healing. Otherwise your options are to give up whm, or at least wait to get your hands on the job before making any brash decisions.

[Fernosaur]

We cast Regen too much. Consistently getting three lilies would be OP, which is why it's gated behind not only rng, but our least used spells as well.

The lily system isn't going to reward the way we currently play WHM, but you can still very likely play that and get your occasional 1-2 Lily CD reduction. If you want greater CD reduction then you have to figure out how to weave cures in without over healing. Otherwise your options are to give up whm, or at least wait to get your hands on the job before making any brash decisions.

I'm going to have to seriously disagree with you in the entirety of your defense for what seems to be the current Lilly system.

There is one obvious reason why this isn't OP in the slightest, and that is because we already have something that could reduce the CD of literally every ability we have in the game, and that is The Spear, which is the card literally no one wants. Why? Because it's unreliable, but hey, it doesn't matter, because AST can buff you for +30% damage for almost a minute!

If you think reliably getting 3 Lillies twice every minute is OP, I simply don't know what to tell you now. In my opinion the 3 Lillies should shorten the recast timer much more than just 20% for them to be worth anything, and even then they are not worth shifting the playstyle that the toolkit given to WHM has formed just to try and fish for a lucky proc.

Regen should have a 50% that a Lilly would proc with every critical healing over time tick.

Medica II should have a 20% that a Lilly would proc with every critical healing over time tick.

Cure I should have a 50% chance that a Lilly would proc on use.

Cure II should have a 100% chance that a Lilly would proc on use.

Why? Because you want WHM to make use of their own system mechanic. I don't have to tell you what SCH, and more prominently AST can do to help themselves and their party. WHM should have access to pretty and useful, even arguably OP toys too (though I still disagree that any of this is OP).

And don't even get me started on the Confession stacks. Gating the use of WHM's LVL 70 (?!?!) skill behind random low-chance procs just boggles the mind. It's the worst design choice I've seen. It's also not even necessary, considering the amount of burst AoE healing WHM already has. Literally anything else would have been a better addition.

[Gemina]

Snip..

Wait. So you're really going to tell me that consistently being able to cast a free AoE tetra isn't OP?

You want a 50% proc rate on Regen? And you want this on top of being able to keep everyone up with Regen and medical 2 alone?

I'm not even going to argue with you.

[chesnaught]

Wait. So you're really going to tell me that consistently being able to cast a free AoE tetra isn't OP?

You want a 50% proc rate on Regen? And you want this on top of being able to keep everyone up with Regen and medical 2 alone?

I'm not even going to argue with you.

He was talking about lily generation, he didn't say a word about Confession stacks. Lilies do not let you use Plenary Indulgence. For the record, I would prefer a longer cooldown on Plenary Indulgence and a better way of generating Confession stacks than Cure I/II to how it is now.