Only one dungeon in odd numbered patches

[Soraki-Muppe]

Snip or something like that

Another thing we lost was the amount of trials, we got less of those as well.
Most of their ideas had potential that was let down by their poor implementation. Potd as an example could have been great if the room templates varied in shape and size with things in them and perhaps the chance of special rooms, perhaps even change so that what unlocked the passage was not only killing x monsters but could also be finding a key or helping an npc with something so they unlocked it or some group based puzzle, perhaps if not all of it was underground, secret rooms where extra treasure could be found, random mini bosses that could drop some loot for the group if killed, change the current traps for ones that could be disarmed or in other ways dealt with. The idea of potd was never bad, it simply never lived up to what it could have been.

In HW we gave up more then we got, and like you say the dungeons was of lower quality then in ARR... or perhaps they just felt that way to me. Especially the 3.5 dungeons that to me felt like the worst dungeons in the game, they felt uninspiring and boring to the point where I can count on one hand how many times I did them. Less is only better if the quality is higher, but here it has just been less is less with lower quality.

[MomomiMomi]

I personally love instanced and dungeon content. It is 95% of the reason that I got hooked into the MMORPG Genre. That first run of deadmines in WoW got me hooked many many years ago.

That said, I agree with you. Expert dungeons in Heavensward have been terrible. The dungeons have been lazy and it's a big result of this push for other content. The dev team has not had enough resources to develop quality dungeons. I also have run very few expert roulettes this past year (probably more than you, but like ~3-10x per patch).

It's unfortunate that my favourite type of content is such a wash in my favourite game in the genre.

If they made the dungeons better I'd be fine with that, honestly. I actually used to ask for that before, better dungeons. But of all the dungeons we have in the whole game, only some of them I consider decent, and almost all of them, especially more recently, just feel like the same dungeon, it just looks different. None of the normal enemies even have any notable mechanics.

See, people talk about all these new enemies that are in this dungeon. But as much as I wish I could say "oh, cool, a new enemy! I wonder what it does?" I just can't. Before I even get a chance to think that, the tank has pulled it in with the rest of the enemies, grouped them all up, and it's piñata time.

Seriously, is this content? Group them all up and hit it until it dies?

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

the tank has pulled it in with the rest of the enemies, grouped them all up, and it's piñata time.

I still blame Mythflox and the speed runners for this. It seriously feels like ever since this happened, the quality and fun factor of every single dungeon has dropped sharply, since every dungeon before was awesome. Hopefully with the AoE Nerf we'll start seeing more interesting and varied dungeons, but I dunno.

[SendohJin]

See, people talk about all these new enemies that are in this dungeon. But as much as I wish I could say "oh, cool, a new enemy! I wonder what it does?" I just can't. Before I even get a chance to think that, the tank has pulled it in with the rest of the enemies, grouped them all up, and it's piñata time.

Seriously, is this content? Group them all up and hit it until it dies?

exactly this, i like doing dungeons but let's not pretend they are different. i also liked FFXI XP parties were we pulled the same things over and over for hours just to see how long we can keep an XP chain going. there's a degree of fun to some kinds of repetition. but every dungeon especially in the HW era is the same, pull every mob till you can't pull anymore, AOE, rinse and repeat.

for some reason this round i really don't like Sohm Al (Hard), if all we got was Baelsar's Wall i don't think i would much care for the difference.

[Khaoticsuccubus]

I still blame Mythflox and the speed runners for this. It seriously feels like ever since this happened, the quality and fun factor of every single dungeon has dropped sharply, since every dungeon before was awesome. Hopefully with the AoE Nerf we'll start seeing more interesting and varied dungeons, but I dunno.

Somehow I doubt it. Until SE decides to change their approach to dungeon design it'll be aoe runs the whole way regardless of how much they nerf aoe. If they don't like it they need to actually make mobs scary to mass pull with high damage or actual mechanics you have to be wary of, not just more orange circles.

[Alleo]

If they made the dungeons better I'd be fine with that, honestly. I actually used to ask for that before, better dungeons. But of all the dungeons we have in the whole game, only some of them I consider decent, and almost all of them, especially more recently, just feel like the same dungeon, it just looks different. None of the normal enemies even have any notable mechanics.

See, people talk about all these new enemies that are in this dungeon. But as much as I wish I could say "oh, cool, a new enemy! I wonder what it does?" I just can't. Before I even get a chance to think that, the tank has pulled it in with the rest of the enemies, grouped them all up, and it's piñata time.

Seriously, is this content? Group them all up and hit it until it dies?

I do like my pinata time (bye bye aoe summoner *cries*) but I agree with you on dungeons. Its just trash trash trash -> boss -> repeat. The only thing that changes is the skins of the mobs and the look of the walls. Its still way more interesting than looking at the same wall of PotD for 10 floors imo but at least I can do PotD solo. I would love for dungeons to have more mechanics and even puzzles, maybe even more than one path. But then people will just say that there would be the fastest way to do that and thus make it boring again. This may be right but at least the first few times it would be way more fun and if you run with premades you can give a damn about the meta of people.

I was in Aquapolis with some ingame friends. One was there for the first time and I described how it functions. (RNG on top of RNG and troll doors ftw) They could not believe that and we took near the whole time to just go around and look for hints that might point us in the right direction. In the next run we compared the rooms and saw that they where completely identical. Still it was so much fun trying to see if the position of the carpet might be an hint. We also talked about improvements. Like instead of a wrong door throwing one out immediately they could have let some really hard monster free and if we survive that we could go on. Just things that make it less purely RNG and more about the skill of the players. Heck even if they put in riddles and people post these in the internet, you could still go in there without ever looking at them and thus make it fun for you and your group. Just because there is a meta or a solution on the internet does not mean that people have to look at it.

But instead of those things we will probably just get another trash trash -> boss dungeon with another different paint. Yet even if they are not that interesting probably most of the playerbase can run these and thus have content. I would love for more midcore content but this savage boss sounds more like a content for raiders or people with a static thus again not for the majority of the players. So they need another battle content for the more casual players because otherwise those people will have less to do and they make the majority of your playerbase.

Seeing the track record of them I just cant be hyped about the concept of this, and I am saying this as someone that wanted them to add new content even if its risky..but I never thought that we would loose another content for that again..

[Stanelis]

You all... talk about how bad and boring dungeons are... but praise PotD so much... I just... can't even...

Excuse me... I need to go vomit...

At least in PoTD there is some sort of replay value (due to RNG in the floors layout), that cannot be found in conventionnal dungeon runs. In conventionnal dungeons there is only one way forward and nothing to even think about.

SE decreasing the number of dungeon per patch might not be as bad as people think, but only if they alter their dungeon design (so they aren't corridors with only a few trashs mobs and boring bosses) and/or focus on alternative relevant PVE content. But honestly I kinda expect them to allocate the available ressources to develop new mogstation items.

[KageTokage]

The problem I have with dungeon trash is that it's generally simultaneously too weak, too simple, and too predictable.

I was able to guess exactly what pretty much every single normal enemy in Shisui of the Violet Tides would do beforehand based simply on the model/weapon they were using.

Having more surprising/interesting abilities on trash like what PotD offers at times would spice things up (The self-destructing slimes and mini worms that suddenly hulk out if not killed quickly spring to mind). Perhaps not quite as punishing, but still problematic enough to warrant a kill order.

[Gamer3427]

I do think that one possibility we might see to all this is that in addition to producing more varied content, they might also have time to work on improving the dungeons themselves, or making that one dungeon patch have a more distinct and more lengthy feel to it. I fully agree with the other commenters here in that the majority of the most recent dungeons have felt like the exact same run over and over again. The only dungeon I can really think of that felt truly distinct from the others was The Antitower, and that was mostly because it forced shorter pulls for the most part, and the enemies spawned a bit differently than normal. The actual variety to the combat mechanics of enemies in dungeons is the real problem though, since they don't tend to pose much of a threat if you have a good healer and tank. There's no incentive to take it slow and pick them off one at a time unless everyone is at the bare minimum iLevel to get into the run, and rarely even then......

[Khaoticsuccubus]

At least in PoTD there is some sort of replay value (due to RNG in the floors layout), that cannot be found in conventionnal dungeon runs. In conventionnal dungeons there is only one way forward and nothing to even think about.

Floor layout? Like whether there are 3 rooms or 10?

I guess... I don't count though since every room is practically identical to the last it all just blurs together. Only replay value PotD has for me is it's the fastest way to level... and maybe grind tomes if i want an even easier experience and don't want to deal with bads. Bads in dungeons make the whole experience more painful or impossible, bads in PotD don't matter in the slightest... they're just extra meat to soak up damage for me anyway lol ;P