Samurai Discussion

[Herokoon]

Heya,yeah the double weave was on purpose as they are meant to be used just before the Pot falls off,another possibility is with enough skill speed and decent latency it might be possible to use the Pot a GCD early,between Jinpu and Gekko. Also I can't say how effective double weaving the same oGCD will be,Shinten has a short 1s CD so in theory you might be able to use it twice between GCDs,but that we'll have to test in-game.

Sweet, have you been thinking of how this opener would look, if extended to the 3, or 3:30 minute time stamp?

[Herokoon]

If you are in a predicament where you have 3 kenki and no kaiten, should you convert them and fire off 3 shintens instead?

Shinten, and Hagakure have been on plenty of people's radar, it just took us a few days to find some semblance of a basic structure, many people I believe think Midare Setsugekka is samurai's core "mechanic", "function", or "gimmick" when in fact its Hagakure, and Shinten, and your preemptive mindfulness of your Kenki, and yes I absolutely agree with you, if for whatever reason your Hagakure is coming off of cool-down, and you are sitting on sen at the very same moment, but only have 3-5 Kenki, its absolutely worth it to expend it on Shintens obviously weaved within your combos as you start to go through your buff upkeep, and work towards another Iajutsu, whether its your DoT upkeep, or a Midare.

[Herokoon]

The more I think of it, the more it seems like Hagakure was placed within the kit for this very reason, to prevent you from ever (or less likely to at the very least) use an unbuffed (no kaiten) Midare Setsugekka. It, for a lack of a better word, gives you another better alternative to the latter. Really glad you asked that question!

[Ryaz]

So, looking at the skills, Samurai is going to be interesting to test. It'll probably be like my MCH in Heavensward... lots of time on the test dummy trying to figure out the rotation. Definitely looks more complicated than I expected, with 3 resources to manage (TP, Sen and Kenki). Heck, it looks like they've upped the complexity level on a lot of classes with the addition of things like Heat on MCH and Ninki on Ninja.

Only thing I don't like is the lack of utility, which everyone else has been pointing out. Sure, there will be role skills now instead, but it still looks like Samurai brings nothing to the table but lots and lots of damage.

[Herokoon]

Yes I don't think samurai will secure a slot for something like super savage (at least not for high percentile first clears) but after everything is said and done, it will be what current MCH,BRD, and MNK are currently in Heavensward "damage wise". On paper currently, and this is just on paper. For something akin to a min/max composition, I see DRG,NIN,SCH,AST, I would only assume bard will be getting a slot from just the sheer fact they have buff upkeep for almost 100% of the time if they are on point for swapping out songs, and the Crit scales with drg, and sch, not to mention the drg's piercing buffs the bard. Potentially SMN may snag a spot also, Ifrit for physical, and Garuda for magic (looks similar to mch hypercharge at the launch of 3.0 not super potent) Not too sure for tanks, but currently I hear whispers of PLD doing 30% more damage than the other two tanks on napkin math. Feel free to fact check me on some of this, as I am not 100% sure on PLD, and sorry for going off on a tangent.

[Jarinolde]

Apologizes for the late reply,I wish to thank you for taking the time of creating an image that shows the opener I made,that said I was told that trying to put up the Damage buff sooner would lead to more potency earlier. So I relooked at the Opener I made and for the most part swapped the first and second parts around. The new opener would go like this:

Hakaze(5K) > Jinpu(10K) > Gekko(20K)+"Pot" > Higanbana(20K)

"Meikyo Shisui" > Yuikikaze(30K) > Gekko(40K) > Kasha(50K)+"Hissatsu: Guren" > "Hagakure"(60K)

Hakaze(65K)+"Hissatsu: Shinten"(40K)+"Hissatsu: Shinten"(15K) > Shifu(20K) > Kasha(30K)+"Hissatsu: Shinten"(5K) > Hakaze(10K) > Jinpu(15K) > Gekko(25K) > Hakaze(30K) > Yuikikaze(40K) >"Hissatsu: Kaiten"(20K)+Midare Setsugekka

Thank you for posting this! I've not been really reading too much discussion until the last few days, so realizing Hagakure's potential has piqued my curiosity. I am someone who wasn't sold on Meikyo'ing at the start for an early Midare Setsugekka, but to Meikyo early to get Hagakure on cooldown, in addition to the Shintens from the Kenki earlier is a much better opener than what I had originally came up with.

My original opener that I thought up (using 2.41s recast as a baseline), came to about 247.5 potency per second over 38.22 seconds. Doing the math on your opener is 254.6 potency per second over 36.81 seconds. I didn't have Hagakure in my opener at all, opted to use Meikyo for a 2nd Kaiten'ed Midare Setsugekka after the first, as well as using Kaiten for Guren. It's interesting how the media they've been putting out pushes the Sen, which I get because it's the flashier stuff, but it's not the important part.

I'd like to add, for your opener, if you Enbi at the pull, it would allow for 1 additional Shinten, leaving you with 5 Kenki at the end.

[Herokoon]

I'll have to input that into the simulator, thanks for the input!

[Herokoon]

"I'd like to add, for your opener, if you Enbi at the pull, it would allow for 1 additional Shinten, leaving you with 5 Kenki at the end."

yep that works out quite nicely, I cant really foresee a reason not to throw out an Enbi global at the start of the pull, the extra Shinten more than makes up for the extra ramp up from one global. Good catch!

[jack891]

just curious as to how many of you have extended your openers into full blown rotations?

the first few of my own I tried ran into issues between the 2-3 minute marks where buffs wudnt line up, not having the right amount of sen to refresh the dot or being 2 GCDs either side of the dot (clipping)
its not as easy as using hagakure on cooldown to pump out more shintens, I am however finally sitting on a 4 min rotation where things are lining up better. its not optimized yet tho, il work on that another day

[Herokoon]

Keep us posted on anything you have past the 3:30 minute mark, and yes I am seeing a lot of similar issues with some of the rotations conceived on Reddit within the last week, with this newest iteration of the opener, I plan to see if I can follow the structure of optimal kenki consumption, and kaiten midare if and only if I have my DoT upkeep, and if Hagakure wouldn't be a better substitution at the time. I'll post the opener with rotation here when I'm finished.