Samurai Discussion

[Yorumi]

The one the reddit thread didn't cover that I want to know about is the dot. It's lower potency than midare(unless kaiten works on the dot effect too) and while I can theorycraft decently I'm not the best at it, so it's hard to know if it's ever worth using.

[ShaolinMike]

The one the reddit thread didn't cover that I want to know about is the dot. It's lower potency than midare(unless kaiten works on the dot effect too) and while I can theorycraft decently I'm not the best at it, so it's hard to know if it's ever worth using.

It's higher. The total potency over time is 940. Midare is 720

[Yorumi]

It's higher. The total potency over time is 940. Midare is 720

You're never using midare without kaiten so midare is 1080.

[Leonus]

You're never using midare without kaiten so midare is 1080.

If you are in a predicament where you have 3 kenki and no kaiten, should you convert them and fire off 3 shintens instead? It's more of a potency gain than an unbuffed mandare. I haven't seen too many mentions of shinten.

[Herokoon]

If you are in a predicament where you have 3 kenki and no kaiten, should you convert them and fire off 3 shintens instead?

Shinten, and Hagakure have been on plenty of people's radar, it just took us a few days to find some semblance of a basic structure, many people I believe think Midare Setsugekka is samurai's core "mechanic", "function", or "gimmick" when in fact its Hagakure, and Shinten, and your preemptive mindfulness of your Kenki, and yes I absolutely agree with you, if for whatever reason your Hagakure is coming off of cool-down, and you are sitting on sen at the very same moment, but only have 3-5 Kenki, its absolutely worth it to expend it on Shintens obviously weaved within your combos as you start to go through your buff upkeep, and work towards another Iajutsu, whether its your DoT upkeep, or a Midare.

[Saerk]

You\\'re not factoring the potency cost for using Kaiten. Kenki is worth potency. Your most common oGCD used cost 25 kenki and does 300 potency so let\\'s say that 1 kenki = around 12 potency. Kaiten costs 20 kenki. So that is 240 potency cost for a gain of 360 potency on an attack, that means the net gain for using Kaiten instead of using the 300 potency attack is only 120 potency. Let\\'s compare that to using the ability that converts all 3 sen into kenki. That nets you 60 kenki. At 12 potency per kenki that is a whopping 720 potency itself!

So let\\'s figure something here. While you used midare w/ Kaiten spending 20 kenki for a 1080 potency attack, that also took the oppurtunity cost of a GCD, I used the sen to kenki conversion ability which puts me at 80 kenki, so I have 960 potency banked up, allowing me to use roughly 5-6 300 potency oGCD accounting for generation from doing my combos back up to 3 sen allowing me to then do a Kaiten midare.

[Sai-Kon]

You\\'re not factoring the potency cost for using Kaiten. Kenki is worth potency. Your most common oGCD used cost 25 kenki and does 300 potency so let\\'s say that 1 kenki = around 12 potency. Kaiten costs 20 kenki. So that is 240 potency cost for a gain of 360 potency on an attack, that means the net gain for using Kaiten instead of using the 300 potency attack is only 120 potency. Let\\'s compare that to using the ability that converts all 3 sen into kenki. That nets you 60 kenki. At 12 potency per kenki that is a whopping 720 potency itself!

So let\\'s figure something here. While you used midare w/ Kaiten spending 20 kenki for a 1080 potency attack, that also took the oppurtunity cost of a GCD, I used the sen to kenki conversion ability which puts me at 80 kenki, so I have 960 potency banked up, allowing me to use roughly 5-6 300 potency oGCD accounting for generation from doing my combos back up to 3 sen allowing me to then do a Kaiten midare.

I already factored the potency cost for using Kaiten. For Kaiten to be efficient for the Kenki that we spend on it must provide 240 additional potency. The only Weaponskill that can generate that much potency is Midare Setsugekka with which Kaiten provides +360 potency for a total of 1080. From the second hardest hitting weaponskills (Gekko and Kasha) Kaiten only give +200 potency rendering it inefficient. In other words, you want to use Kaiten only with Midare Setsugekka (and when Hagakure is on cooldown, otherwise convert Sen to Kenki for more Shinten). I did the exact thing in the opener I discussed. Maybe you were confused because I used the name "Iaijutsu" instead of the actual name of the ability. The Iaijutsu I used in the end in combination with Kaiten is Midare Setsugekka.

[Arcana]

I already factored the potency cost for using Kaiten. For Kaiten to be efficient for the Kenki that we spend on it must provide 240 additional potency. The only Weaponskill that can generate that much potency is Midare Setsugekka with which Kaiten provides +360 potency for a total of 1080. From the second hardest hitting weaponskills (Gekko and Kasha) Kaiten only give +200 potency rendering it inefficient. In other words, you want to use Kaiten only with Midare Setsugekka (and when Hagakure is on cooldown, otherwise convert Sen to Kenki for more Shinten). I did the exact thing in the opener I discussed. Maybe you were confused because I used the name "Iaijutsu" instead of the actual name of the ability. The Iaijutsu I used in the end in combination with Kaiten is Midare Setsugekka.

Very useful tip. I'll remember this for the rotation on release. Thx^^;

[Arkdra]

Yes you would always use the dot on anything that's going to live for a fair chunk of it. Sen is a resource. 1 sen is effectively 20 kenki. Higanbana is 940 potency for 20 kenki which is crazy efficient. Kaiten'd Midare is effectively 80 kenki for 1080 which is pretty overpriced for what it is.

Confused why people are looking to add Enbi to their basic rotation. The value of Yaten and Gyoten is the ability to maintain dps uptime, not procing an attack that will do about 70 more potency for nearly 3 times the cost, nevermind that yaten and gyoten themselves are kenki inefficient in terms of damage dealt. Plus however many auto's you miss.

Like, they're good skills for dodging AE and getting back in there and maintaining some semblance of dps when you otherwise would be dealing none, but as part of a standard opener or something you'd want to be doing on cooldown? Even on fights where the tp cost wouldn't be an issue, I don't see it.

[ShaolinMike]

Confused why people are looking to add Enbi to their basic rotation. The value of Yaten and Gyoten is the ability to maintain dps uptime, not procing an attack that will do about 70 more potency for nearly 3 times the cost, nevermind that yaten and gyoten themselves are kenki inefficient in terms of damage dealt. Plus however many auto's you miss.

Like, they're good skills for dodging AE and getting back in there and maintaining some semblance of dps when you otherwise would be dealing none, but as part of a standard opener or something you'd want to be doing on cooldown? Even on fights where the tp cost wouldn't be an issue, I don't see it.

I thought the same thing.