Samurai Discussion

[Yorumi]

Makes you wonder if Hagakure will only be a dps increase if you have Meikyo Shishui ready to use and something like Hissatsu: Guren to dump Kenki immediately so you don't cap out. I assume the cap is 100 kenki.

If you're at 40 kenki or below i'm pretty sure it would be a dps increase regardless. You can spend 3 sen on 720 potency. If you want to do everything you can to try to favor that you can use Kaiten to get 1080 potency out of 3 sen and 20 keniki. On the other hand the conversion to 60 keniki you could do Yaten > Enhanced enbi > Gyoten > Shinten > Shinten for a total of 1100 potency. Of course that takes a lot longer to execute than midare but I think it's probably overall better.

According to Very Merri. Kaiten does not affect DoT potencies from Higanbana. Just the initial hit. Like how life surge on drg would only crit the initial hit on chaos thrust but not the dot ticks

I'm not always good with stuff that takes varying amounts of gcds but I don't think Haganbana is ever worth applying. If kaiten doesn't affect dot ticks then Haganbana is 1060 total potency. Midare is 1080 under kaiten.

[Tsilyi]

If you're at 40 kenki or below i'm pretty sure it would be a dps increase regardless. You can spend 3 sen on 720 potency. If you want to do everything you can to try to favor that you can use Kaiten to get 1080 potency out of 3 sen and 20 keniki. On the other hand the conversion to 60 keniki you could do Yaten > Enhanced enbi > Gyoten > Shinten > Shinten for a total of 1100 potency. Of course that takes a lot longer to execute than midare but I think it's probably overall better.

I feel like you want to not yaten/gyoten, since staying in would allow you to shinten more via hagakure since you are also generating more kenki through your melee attacks after you dump into shinten. if you jump out and in you are only generating 10 kenki for enbi. but you're spending 5 less i suppose. in addition that's 1 gcd where you are generating both (i believe) 10 kenki less than you would normally and also not comboing toward your next sen.

[Yorumi]

I feel like you want to not yaten/gyoten, since staying in would allow you to shinten more via hagakure since you are also generating more kenki through your melee attacks after you dump into shinten. if you jump out and in you are only generating 10 kenki for enbi. but you're spending 5 less i suppose. in addition that's 1 gcd where you are generating both (i believe) 10 kenki less than you would normally and also not comboing toward your next sen.

I think sam is going to be fairly complicated actually. Trying to figure out maximum potency per gcd is interesting. There's the question of is it better to do a yaten > Enbi > gyoten combo or just continue to save for shinten. The yaten combo is more efficient on keniki but also doesn't build any sen. In terms of sen building midare seems to be always better than haganbana, but yukikaze is the lower potency combo and doesn't need to be refreshed as fast as you can get through the whole rotation of 3 combos. So maybe it's best to do all 3, midare, one combo, hagan, and get all 3 again for midare. Now the problem though is it's a 60 second dot and we don't want to clip it. And then there's meditate to throw into the mix which shuts off auto attack. Certainly complicated but I like that.

[Tsilyi]

Yes, Yorumi. I agree to an extent. I just wonder if it will come down to if you are yaten enbi gyoten on CD on a purely tank and spank boss, and assuming let's say for simplicity's sake that's 1 gcd lost toward your next sen, how many times would you have to do that to lose a MSG on say a 3 or 5 minute encounter or what have you. It'll be interesting to figure out. I don't know that I'll jump out and in unless it's a marked increase in dps because i feel it's better to save it for if you need it. I doubt the kenki spent in difference will matter too much. over that same course of time then, the potency would be (I think)

yaten enbi gyoten = 100 300 100
shinten hakaze shinten = 300 150 300

this is of course assuming you start with at minimum the 60 kenki from 3sen hagakure

[Remus]

snip

I think the only time you would use meditate is basically when you can't hit the boss because they are not on the map or there are no adds because you can't move while meditating if you do it cancels it and it will go on cooldown.

[Coltvoyance]

Here's my initial thoughts on how SAM should fight, starting with the opener:

Meikyo > Shifu > Jinpu > Yukikaze > Kaiten > Higanbana > Ageha > Yaten > Enbi > Gyoten

(From here on out I'm going to use "YEG Combo" to refer to the Yaten > Enbi > Gyoten sequence)

So I'm not a math wiz, these figures arent exact, but this opener gets all your buffs up and delivers around 2287 immediate potency (3320 "potential" potency, Higanbana needs time) in roughly 12 seconds. EDIT: according to poster above, Kaiten doesn't affect the DoT for Higanbana, these numbers were originally calculated under the assumption that it did, I've readjusted them

After that, you would roll into the normal rotation which is, from what I've been able to piece together, a 30 second affair, (how convenient that it matches the length of your buffs!) In my head it goes like this:

Hakaze > Shifu > Kasha > YEG Combo > Hakaze > Jinpu > Gekko > YEG Combo > Hakaze > Yukikaze > Special > YEG Combo

Then repeat. At the end of the rotation you should have 5 leftover Kenki.

Special #1: The first "Special" when you have all 3 Sen should be to use Hagakure > Kaiten > Guren for ~1500 potency. EDIT: on closer inspection Kaiten tooltip specifies "Weaponskill" for boost, Guren is an ability. It may not apply, so taking Guren out of the equation.

Special #2: Kaiten > Midare.

This is my first pass at what I feel is the optimal sequence for its DPS... Thoughts? Anything I missed or didn't consider? (Gonna work on the AOE rotations next.)

[Arkenne]

DoTs usually have more value the sooner they are applied, so maybe Hakaze -> Yukikaze -> Higanbana may be the way to go.
Higanbana's DoT may not be affected by the Slashing Debuff just like NIN's DoTs work, but it gets started way earlier than going the route of Hakaze -> Jinpu -> Gekko -> Higanbana.

I'm liking it that you get to choose what you want to begin with, if power or speed. Personally I would go for speed tho, with Shifu.

[ShaolinMike]

These skill names...I'm gonna need a cheat sheet until I learn them all lol.

[Tsilyi]

These skill names...I'm gonna need a cheat sheet until I learn them all lol.

i know i may look like i know them, but i am checking and rechecking every one to make sure when i type, i promise LMAO.

[Arkenne]

These skill names...I'm gonna need a cheat sheet until I learn them all lol.

Cheat Sheet

There ya go

Pic is a tad big so rather not paste it.