Samurai Discussion

[silentwindfr]

the sam have the potential to be extremely usefull in group, where other will bring utility and raise the capacity of the group, the sam will be focus to gather this utility for transform it in raw power.
a point important to note, the sam have no self buff like most of the other dps. means outside the three self buff (slash resistance, speed attack and damage buff...what the other have generally too) they have no buff, all them power is directly put in the potency of the skill...

i think with time they will add more tool for adapt to different combat and that will be maybe the sam way to evolve be versatile with a high raw power that can turn into a destructive force when with a group that can buff him.

[EdwinLi]

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Honestly, in my opinion I think they may go for the Muramasa/Demon Blade route with SAM mechanics as they expand it.

It is a popular theme for Katana theme classes to go into Demon Blades and infusing their Katana with demonic energy from the souls killed due to the legend of Masamune and Muramasa.

The Kenki Guage already sets up a good starting zone for a Muramasa/Demon Blade Guage to build up to 100% then with a certain future skill turn the Kenki Guage into a Muramasa Guage that changes the animation of each skill with increase potency to represent the Muramasa's blood lust but drains over time but can be extended as it drains to 0 by continuing to using skills that adds Kenki.

it would leave this mechanic as a Blood lust mechanic where SAM seeks to always be using skills to kill their enemies relating to the legend of Muramasa minus the part where the wield have to kill themselves if the Muramasa does not taste blood.


On another topic:

Either way SAM will be very popular as Sword DPS Jobs are a very popular Job in most RPG games. Maybe replacing or equal to Bard in popularity though that would mean 90% will be a lot of bad SAM as well

[RhaegarFFXIFenrir]

Except, I see SAM as having a pretty decent skill floor. Even a "bad" SAM just popping out their 3 combos and iaijutsu's will still be pumping out "decent" damage. That won't be raid quality damage, but it'll be good enough for most casual content. It's just that this job has one of the highest skill ceilings, meaning that 10% that aren't what would be considered "bad" are going to be an in-demand resource for raid groups.

As far as SAMs intentionally taking damage to get Starry Eyes off...I don't think we'll see that from any good players. The idea of intentionally stepping into a cleave or tankbuster just to get a 200 potency move off: not only are you not gonna get the move off but you'll be doing 0 dps while the healer is raising your stupid ass off the floor . That said, this is going to be a situational skill. Unavoidable AOE? Pop Third Eye and toss out a cheap counter attack. Just like the Enbi combo isn't worth executing on its own, but if there's an AOE circle you'd have an excellent combo to dodge and keep uptime on the boss.

[EdwinLi]

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When I said Bad I mean they most likely will ignore the vital parts of SAM's Mechanics or not manage their main mechanic properly which Bad Bard players today often do with their Main Mechanic being Songs since their Song Mechanics does not provide "personal" benefits to themselves. For me the concept of Good and Bad for a certain Job is based on how the handling of the Job Mechanic is dealt with by the player.

It kind of relates back to why Bard had their Song Mechanic and Songs changes into complete new skills in 4.0 that provided both self benefit, damage, and party benefits.

Two of the Songs have been given a 100 potency AoE Attack and some are required now to access certain Bard Procs that use to not require songs. Yes Songs will be used now but how properly they are used will be the difference between a Good Bard and Bad Bards. A Good bard would use only certain Songs in certain order by considering which Song is required first and next based on the position the team is in but a Bad Bard would just spam random songs or exclude a song because it would not benefit them as much as a certain song already only to keep up their own self benefits.

For SAM, it is a easy straight forward melee DPS Job for most players but the oGCD skills that require proper management may be misused on the wrong times or just completely ignored. Though the concept of oGCD skills is more into weaving and managing the Kenki Guage which can be a bit difficult for some due to being trigger happy.

Though I guess this is why I see the Kenki Guage as the early stage for a Muramasa Guage as it already sets up the concept of managing the Kenki energy for full effectiveness if players don't go too crazy on it. It also would reflect the nature of Muramasa Blade to get the wielder to become "Blood thirsty" once they have full Kenki Guage and SAM's set of High damage Kenki oGCD skills to use.

[RhaegarFFXIFenrir]

Eh, I think this is also why we won't even be getting access to the Kenki gauge until lvl 52. Give players all the basics right out the gate and give them 2 levels to learn how to run their basic combos and finishers, then slowly add in the kenki so players can start to learn how to manage it as well. On paper it's a good design process, but there's going to be issues where those who level in the "traditional" sense are going to get a grasp of its intricacies much faster than those who blow through their first 10 levels in PotD.

I think the Muramasa gauge is a cool idea, but let's keep things at the 4.0 level. More theory-crafting for next week would be wonderful. SB hasn't even hit yet, and so it's much too early to be discussing 5.0.

[Shayuki]

Eh, I think this is also why we won't even be getting access to the Kenki gauge until lvl 52. Give players all the basics right out the gate and give them 2 levels to learn how to run their basic combos and finishers, then slowly add in the kenki so players can start to learn how to manage it as well. On paper it's a good design process, but there's going to be issues where those who level in the "traditional" sense are going to get a grasp of its intricacies much faster than those who blow through their first 10 levels in PotD.

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More theory-crafting for next week would be wonderful. SB hasn't even hit yet, and so it's much too early to be discussing 5.0.

On the first point, I've never subscribed to this line of thought, and I don't think I ever will. It's far more useful to level through PotD and have access to all of your skills and to be able to learn how to use all of them instead of only using half of your toolkit and, for instance, when nearing lvl 60 getting to play with an important mechanic for 2 levels. The issue in players not knowing their class well after leveling through PotD is due to them being able to get away with being lazy in there, but as long as you actually put in some effort and actually try to learn, being at lvl 60 the entire time is easily more beneficial than getting your skills one at a time, in my opinion. Of course, the benefit is diminished now that the max level is 70, but it still is there. Though, for Samurai specifically, I don't think it matters a whole lot.


On the second point, plenty of theorycrafting has already been done. One interesting thing is that it seems that Samurai will actually work pretty well with skill speed in comparison to most other physical jobs. The reason for this is twofold:

The first reason is that Samurai has very few cooldown-based oGCD abilities. Pretty much the only ones would be Hagakure and Meikyo Shisui. Apart from those, their oGCD damage is composed of Kenki spenders. Which gets us to the second point.

The second reason is that Samurai gains Kenki faster by attacking faster, which actually causes SS to give Samurai's oGCD abilities a benefit, which it does for no other classes.

Because of this, while I expect crit to still be the most valuable stat for Samurai, I expect Skill Speed to take over Determination, or at the very least not be the worst secondary stat. It remains to be seen how powerful Direct Hit is as a stat.

[Drakeos]

So for leveling rotation what would it be go from 50-60+ ?

[Shayuki]

Shifu > Jinpu > Yukikaze in priority. Higanbana > Midare Setsugekka for Sen usage.

Hissatsu: Kaiten on Midare Setsugekka > Kasha, Gekko as priority.

Hissatsu: Yaten, Enbi, Hissatsu: Gyoten combo sequence might be worthwhile, in which case you'd want to do it on cooldown, assuming you have Hissatsu: Kaiten for Midare Setsugekka as that's the highest priority for Kenki usage.

[Drakeos]

Shifu > Jinpu > Yukikaze in priority. Higanbana > Midare Setsugekka for Sen usage.

Hissatsu: Kaiten on Midare Setsugekka > Kasha, Gekko as priority.

Hissatsu: Yaten, Enbi, Hissatsu: Gyoten combo sequence might be worthwhile, in which case you'd want to do it on cooldown, assuming you have Hissatsu: Kaiten for Midare Setsugekka as that's the highest priority for Kenki usage.

Perfect rotation from 50-60+ ?

[LordeMichii]

Perfect rotation from 50-60+ ?

I would advise not to get into the "perfect" aspect of the job with only partial kit which is 50-60. You would have to wait till you get all of your kit which has been in discussion throughout this thread, until then Shayuki has done a good job to give you a structure of priority to begin with.