MNK 4.0 Changes . . . I'm not a fan tbh

[TheRedMage]

Rejuvenation is basically useless now. With the TP reduction on skills and the added skill speed slow from Riddle of Fire, MNKs now have almost negative TP usage. Invigorate is more than enough to cover you. So how about we make Rejuvenation give you a GL stack or refresh it and then change RoE into something useful instead. That way we have more control over when we get our refresh and doesn't need to face tank an AoE to get it.

One Ilm Punch is still pretty much a waste of space, as it can't be used outside of Raptor so you can't use it on reaction without using Perfect Balance too. So might as well take leg sweep as that will almost always be available and stuns longer. Not sure how to fix it.

Tornado Kick just need to not eat our GL or at worst only 1 stack and it would be fine. Heck, make it eat one stack per use but only do like 150 pot and be able to use it three times in a row.

[TheRedMage]

RoF just doesn't fit theme of fire. RoE should be what RoF is. Slow but hard hitting and would give us a reason to be in FoE more often. And then change RoF into something more appropriate like a DoT or something.

Not sure what to do with RoW, I feel like we should be able to use it outside of FoW. Like after you use a shoulder tackle (any tackle) you can use RoW, but it only does 65 pot and doesn't stun?

I dunno guys. MNK feels so underwhelming now

Why is 1000 character limit a thing? -.-

[Abel_X]

Why is 1000 character limit a thing? -.-

You have to edit your original post to get past it. I typed all that out, lost like 3/4 of it and typed it out again. Because this has to get fixed.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

If you you PERFECTLY time taking damage at 1 sec left on GL3 you still only get an extra 15 secs of GL3. Not nearly long enough. Even on smaller transitions it needs to refresh our form timer too in case you're doing mechanics and can't form shift ex. Lakshimi confusion.

About Lakshmi's confusion, if you just keep riding your gcd you'll actually not even need RoE. I used to use it like that too and then i realized I can just keep attacking. However, i do want to agree with you about the form timers. initially the form timers were meant to match greased lightning's timer, but as GL has been extended more and more, it leaves the problem that no matter how much they buff gl3's timer we are still somewhat limited by our form timers which are still ridiculously low. ending a phase in coeurl form usually means there's less than 10s left on GL3 and it's around 7s of form shift to get back to coeurl from there. if you are stunned or unable to move for those 3s you are still screwed out of your GL3. If GL3 was up to 20s it would allow for double the timer on the forms, giving slightly more room to maintain. Monk is easy to play but it is by far the most punishing job when fight's literally force you out of GL3, 1st phase transition in Susano EX is a perfect example. the phase transition is like 22s. you have drgs with their 30s timer and then nin with their 70s timers all Sam buffs are 30s and then there is us with our ridiculous 16s still. Chakra's should have been expanded on this expansion to allow for a GL3 refresh at the cost of all 5 on a 180s timer and PB should really be dropped down to 120s or 90s by now. if PB was dropped to 90s it would actually allow us to TK in the last second of Riddle of Fire for maximum damage and then get our stacks back fast. There's so much they could have done to make to monk to improve the gameplay and really add on to it, but instead they screwed us up

[Shock__]

The biggest problem I have with 4.0 Mnk, aside from stacked rng, is that the 50% chance to get a stack doesn't feel like 50%, and if it's going to be like that, we should at least get two stack on a direct crit since it's weaponskill only. The rng just makes our burst rather inconsistent, which is very unappealing.

[Shock__]

Tackle mastery doesn't make any sense to me, at all. They really could've kept that. I also don't understand why Monk got all potency nerfs while other jobs got potency buffs, but whatever.

Finally, if generating chakra was the highlight of 4.0's Mnk kit, why didn't we also get other ways of spending it? I for one would've really appreciated an aoe version of Forbidden Chakra. All of the 60+ dungeons have a lot of trash pulls, with opportunities to use PB > Rockbreaker x5 and you gain a lot of chakra that way, but it sucks to have to only use it on one mob when you're aoe'ing

[KingFrost]

I think Arm of the Destroyer should be an AoE that eats chakra (It's name is too badass to remain useless) Leave it at 50 pot but have it eat one Chakra. There. Useless skill made useful and chakra now has much more use. Just put the silence on One-Ilm Punch and remove it's form restriction.

Also, Chakra should proc off any crit at a lower rate. 20-25% would be better than what it is now (Given auto attacks and abilities). If only to make it "feel" better.

[Shock__]

I think Arm of the Destroyer should be an AoE that eats chakra (It's name is too badass to remain useless) Leave it at 50 pot but have it eat one Chakra. There. Useless skill made useful and chakra now has much more use.

I'm sorry, but no, that doesn't make any sense to me. If AotD is useless as it is, it eating one stack becomes not only even more useless, it then becomes detrimental lol. That move sucks as an aoe, and requires at least 5 mobs to be considered a dps gain.. 50 potency is laughable. They should honestly just remove it and make PB cool down shorter. That or buff it.

[BucklesTrespen]

Interesting thread with some decent proposals. I am in the boat of not enjoying Tackle Mastery because the buffs are so lackluster. Having fought the end boss of Hall of the Fist I figure they gave that boss all the cool Monk mechanics that could have worked with us.

I've written my suggestions in another thread so will do the tldr version since other people are tossing out ideas.

Fists of Fire.
Make the 5% damage a trait at 62 and give FoF an additional 10-15% chance to trigger Deep Meditation from Bootshine. Bootshine hits with our fists - we have fists of fire! This will help with the rng aspect behind what is a great concept with less than ideal implementation. Might help counter losing streaks of rng.

Making the damage a trait helps with following suggestions because a skill that has a flat damage removes the need to choose any other skill 95% of the time.

Riddle of Fire.
Remove/lower the Skill Speed reduction. Lower damage buff accordingly. Monks hit hard and fast. Hamon taught us this on day one back in the pugilist guild. Don't have us unlearn everything the Holyfist taught us.

Fire Tackle.
Higher potency. Remove stun.

Fists of Earth.
Damage reduction unchanged.
Additional Effect:
Increases Rockbreaker potency to 150 on primary target and it is a smaller aoe instead of a larger cone. Or do a Holy type fall-off in potency since people further back get hit by less broken rocks I s'pose... But having FoE effect a skill called ROCKbreaker seems fun!

Riddle of Earth
Pauses the countdown of GL until we take damage and then resets the timer to max.
Keeps the current version intact but expands it (I hope) in a logical fashion. Too often a mechanic will occur before we can Demolish / Snap Punch and this puts Monks at the lowest we can be in our GL countdown. I personally cannot count the times GL fell off and a heartbeat later I took damage.

Earth Tackle.
Remove the knock back. 4 second stun. Because Earth is heavy?

Fists of Wind
Movement speed unchanged. Super niche but at least niche = choice and choice = good.

Riddle of Wind / Wind Tackle:
Wind Tackle adds 5 seconds to the current GL timer and 3 seconds to our form timer.
Additional Effect: Allows the use of Tornado Kick (potency 250) without spending Chakra. Because a Tornado is wind and our fists are that of the wind...?
This will help preserve GL when we don't take damage - such as when we avoid a mechanic with 3-5 seconds left on GL and are unable to form shift to coeurl - or worse, we get GCD locked from the charge and lose GL.

Wind Tackle minimum range increased to 15-20 yalms (i.e. no longer melee range) so that we don't end up stance dancing for a free Tornado Kick every 10 seconds. It would be a major dps loss to run out and charge back in (I think).
Something along these lines would encourage Monks to switch stances when we are forced to run out of the fire and gives us GL and form time when we charge back because losing our forms and being thrown back to the start of our combo chain is a massive dps hit. The free Tornado Kick is sort of free damage for having not been on the boss for X-time since we no longer have ToD or Fracture ticking while we're doing mechanics.

To be honest the skill works without the Tornado Kick Additional Effect - I just see a lot of Monks wishing they could use TK more often and given we have (lackluster) moves to preserve GL then having a skill for a free, lower potency TK seems like a good idea?

I had more to say re: reasoning behind my suggestions - but man I spent way too long on this and I have work to do...

[silentwindfr]

no fist of wind need to either be changed into a trait or simply be removed, illusion of choice is not a choice...

tackle mastery is simply bad, it's something that will have make sense at really low level since we don't have any ranged attack
but get this soo high is stupid... more important the different option are....meh. the goal of shoulder tackle is...to get in melee nothing else!