Thread: In defense of WHM 4.0

From what I can tell, the intention of the lily gauge is not to deliberately toss unneeded heals trying to fill it up. Why would anyone do this? The question I am asking is how hard are these Stormblood mobs going to hit? The reason why I ask this, is because the more damage the group takes, the more powerful the WHM becomes. That is what this lily gauge does. You potentially get stronger and faster until you have to use an ability like Assize, or Asylum. And if things really get hairy, you get to cast a buffed up stoneskin, instantly, in mid-battle. It could make the difference between a wipe and success.

The abilities WHM is losing to the cross skill slots (most of which the other two healers crossed already) may not be as bad it seems. Has anyone considered that WHM may no longer need them? If you actually need to cure to get your procs and stacks, why bring Divine Seal? Hell, why even bring Protect? Leaving room for something like Surecast. I for one saw the change to Surecast, and this skill went from totally useless, to something I TOTALLY want now. Might want to think about keeping Cleric too, especially with our new ability reduce MP cost to 0 for what is it? 10 seconds. How many free Holy's is that? It can also be used for a free raise. Will WHM even need Saints except situationally now?

I actually can't help but get a little excited the more I think about things. We need to play it, and perhaps adjustments will be made based on player feedback. Don't give up yet WHMs!

Originally Posted by Gemina

The question I am asking is how hard are these Stormblood mobs going to hit?

Didn't they say that the dungeons aren't going to be more difficult compared to Heavensward?

Originally Posted by Niroken

Didn't they say that the dungeons aren't going to be more difficult compared to Heavensward?

From what I remember, it was stated that open world mobs would have reduced HP in comparison to HW open world mobs. That might be totally different though, but I don't recall anything about dungeon mobs. I question it though because if players aren't taking damage, this lily gauge isn't going to fill up. Players will still DPS the hell out of things.

Originally Posted by Gemina

From what I remember, it was stated that open world mobs would have reduced HP in comparison to HW open world mobs. That might be totally different though, but I don't recall anything about dungeon mobs. I question it though because if players aren't taking damage, this lily gauge isn't going to fill up. Players will still DPS the hell out of things.

Even if they are taking damage, it's locked behind RNG. You could have the worst luck in the world and barely get any Lillies. It's not like there is any super strat to using them, if you need to use Tetra for a burst heal on a low HP DPS or Tank you lose all your lillies and it lowers your CD for Tetra, or if you need to use Assize for DPS or MP reasons same thing and that's if you never used your "Stoneskin" beforehand which also eats up your lillies. It's like a minor bonus in some situations and a determent in others.

Originally Posted by Niroken

Didn't they say that the dungeons aren't going to be more difficult compared to Heavensward?

I don't think we have much to go on. Yoshi P seem to imply that by 'challanging' didn't he meant harder when asked about it in an interview. The footage of people running the lvl 64 dungeon during the Media tour didn't seem to show particularly more damage being taken than you would usually see and manage in a current lvling dungeon.

Originally Posted by Gemina

From what I can tell, the intention of the lily gauge is not to deliberately toss unneeded heals trying to fill it up. Why would anyone do this? The question I am asking is how hard are these Stormblood mobs going to hit? The reason why I ask this, is because the more damage the group takes, the more powerful the WHM becomes. That is what this lily gauge does. You potentially get stronger and faster until you have to use an ability like Assize, or Asylum. And if things really get hairy, you get to cast a buffed up stoneskin, instantly, in mid-battle. It could make the difference between a wipe and success.

The abilities WHM is losing to the cross skill slots (most of which the other two healers crossed already) may not be as bad it seems. Has anyone considered that WHM may no longer need them? If you actually need to cure to get your procs and stacks, why bring Divine Seal? Hell, why even bring Protect? Leaving room for something like Surecast. I for one saw the change to Surecast, and this skill went from totally useless, to something I TOTALLY want now. Might want to think about keeping Cleric too, especially with our new ability reduce MP cost to 0 for what is it? 10 seconds. How many free Holy's is that? It can also be used for a free raise. Will WHM even need Saints except situationally now?

I actually can't help but get a little excited the more I think about things. We need to play it, and perhaps adjustments will be made based on player feedback. Don't give up yet WHMs!

The intent behind the lily system is to boost healing if you're healing the way Yoshi-P wants you to. If people have been healing the wrong way all this time just so they can get more DPS, then those people simply picked the wrong job in the first place.

Like given what you have a choice for in this game, why ISN'T everyone playing scholar/summoner.

The Lily system isn't encouraging overhealing, it's encouraging you to heal through Cure I and Cure II, which is what you should be using when characters take damage, not constantly overheal with Regen and Medica II. If you are actually WHM playing the way Yoshi-P thinks people play it, then you get the benefit of being able to cast these high power heals when you need them, instead of spamming them because they're available. If you're playing DPS-WHM like some people have said they are playing, then the Lily system doesn't harm you, so there's simply nothing to complain about.

Meanwhile, look at Scholar, their new trick is the Fae Union triggered by Aetherflow. Something you should be using anyway. So people maybe shouldn't be looking at Lily and Fae meters as anything but "bonus trick I can do for playing the role correctly"

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

The Lily system isn't encouraging overhealing, it's encouraging you to heal through Cure I and Cure II, which is what you should be using when characters take damage, not constantly overheal with Regen and Medica II."

You know what would actually encourage people to do that? Making the content require it. If you can overheal with HoT's then something is clearly wrong with the content that is provided and should be adjusted to be more challenging. At least DPSing is slightly more stimulating then pressing the same button over and over.

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

The intent behind the lily system is to boost healing if you're healing the way Yoshi-P wants you to. If people have been healing the wrong way all this time just so they can get more DPS, then those people simply picked the wrong job in the first place.

For once, this conversation has virtually nothing to do with DPS.

Healing by spamming Cure spells generally is the wrong way to go about it. Efficient WHMs leverage HoTs and abilities to do the bulk of their healing and judiciously apply Cures as necessary. The lily system, working on a % proc chance and only for Cure and Cure II, does not fit well with what skilled healers practice.

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

The Lily system isn't encouraging overhealing, it's encouraging you to heal through Cure I and Cure II, which is what you should be using when characters take damage, not constantly overheal with Regen and Medica II. If you are actually WHM playing the way Yoshi-P thinks people play it, then you get the benefit of being able to cast these high power heals when you need them, instead of spamming them because they're available. If you're playing DPS-WHM like some people have said they are playing, then the Lily system doesn't harm you, so there's simply nothing to complain about.

Meanwhile, look at Scholar, their new trick is the Fae Union triggered by Aetherflow. Something you should be using anyway. So people maybe shouldn't be looking at Lily and Fae meters as anything but "bonus trick I can do for playing the role correctly"

That's exactly what I've been saying. I'm not sure if people thought/hoped that the lily system would bring the raid utility WHM is lacking, but it would be a bad move to make any content that relied upon this RNG based system to get through it. But it will make it easier opposed to its absence. I know many will then believe it is a faulty system to implement in the first place if that is the case.

This lily system is basically a RNG based race. The three lilies vs your CDs. Using whichever becomes available first is how I envision optimization of this job now. Sometimes you will have 1, or, 2, and if 3, then wootz! Either way, you will more than likely get a decreased cooldown by the time you use one of your abilities, and I don't know about others, but Assize in 57.6 (4%) seconds instead of 60, I will take anyday of the week. And think about that overall increase from 90seconds. They took WHMs most powerful ability, made it stronger (no potency loss either way), and you can cast it more now. Eek!

Or...

Will you gamble? You have two lilies, and Assize just went off CD, but your next cure could proc that third, and reduce your next Assize even more (next in 48secs). Hmmmm... Don't know about other WHMs here, but I looooooooove to gamble, and this job now allows me to do it without detriment to the team.

That said, I need to evaluate abilities like Largesse, Lucid Dreaming, and even Protect in relation to the new abilities we are given. With reduced cooldowns (Bene too), and now even AoE free heals, Do we really need these? Perhaps dropping them in favor of the other abilities like Surecast, and Break will compliment the WHMs abilities. I see a very efficient heal and DPS machine here.