Problem with "Optional" Items in the Cash Shop

[Yallaid]

How do cosmetic items in the shop make people play less? That doesn't even make sense.

What? it's simple -- imagine if the birds and ponies were only available in Mogstation. Bam! no one does old extreme primals outside of Wondrous Tails, which didn't even exist until several months ago.

That's how taking stuff that might serve a purpose in-game and locking it behind a paywall can affect who plays the game and how much time they spend doing it.

[RaijinSupreme]

What? it's simple -- imagine if the birds and ponies were only available in Mogstation. Bam! no one does old extreme primals outside of Wondrous Tails, which didn't even exist until several months ago.

That's how taking stuff that might serve a purpose in-game and locking it behind a paywall can affect who plays the game and how much time they spend doing it.

well technically, that's not likely to happen either. The birds and the ponies is the only reason why the replayability for the trials are so high. If they were available in the mogstation,

1) they probably wouldnt be as sought after, and wouldn't hold the same prestige they do now, and
2) its another reason why people would stop paying the subs, which would lead to less money being made by SE.

So essentially, its less profitable for SE to put those things, and other collectables like it, in the mogstation at any point.

[Yallaid]

adding to post because I hit cap...


But they aren't in the cash shop. If we are still playing the "what if' game then sure.... but I was replying to the "...because that's what cash shops are all about" when it is clear that is *not* all they are about since that doesn't happen now.

Gotcha -- lemme try from another angle then cause from my PoV this is already happening now:

Take the Big Moogle balloon mount, that thing is totally awesome and I swear it has as many fancy touches and attentions to the details that the Extreme Primal mounts and really rare ones like the Zu does.

But there's nothing in-game that rewards that mount. I get that it's cool and they want people who desire it to be able to have it, but why is it only available in the cash shop? If it were a reward for something I don't do in-game, say Verminion, it would be a big incentive for me to play more of that. It would liven up a part of the game that I'm sure at least some people wish was more lively.


Instead, SE has made the conscious decision to not use every single cosmetic reward as a draw for players to old or under-utilized content. I'm not saying that's wrong of them, just that it has to be seen as a trade-off. If SE wanted to get the most people playing their game and get them to spend their time on the biggest variety of content available, they would not have created a cash shop. By setting up Mogstation it's apparent that they are OK letting some content wither, either temporarily or forever, in order to meet the immediate demand for these rewards.

With the amount of stuff they've put the in Mogstation and the frankly shocking demand that people have for it I don't think my ideas are even feasible anymore, and I am not asking SE to change anything at this point. But I won't budge on this, having a cash shop absolutely impacts the game that the cash shop is tied to, it's inescapable.

[Berethos]

Otherwise, why put any of that obtainable in the game at all?

To keep people playing the game.

Think about it - if they put a bunch of stuff just a credit card away, it disincentivizes players from sticking around to buy/craft/built/obtain/loot in the game through day to day gameplay...which happens to require a subscription fee to do.

Basically, the mobshop needs to not get in the way of the game itself, and offering too many of the optional stuff in-game would get in the way of the game. If it can't do that, then it harms the game, which in turn harms itself.

[odintius]

The day I'm on a main story mission and it prompts me with a message that to continue with mission I need to visit the mogstation to purchase (item) I'll be right there with everyone else saying wtf. Until then my wallet is safe >.>

[Cynfael]

The cosmetic cash shop has inspired fear, dread, and moaning since it was first announced, and yet we have not seen the devs stop introducing new cosmetic content into the game client proper.

While one could argue that these items could simply be placed into the game under the base subscription model, one could also argue that, without the additional revenue provided by the cash shop, the budget to implement some of the original cash shop content would not exist, and we wouldn't be seeing it regardless.

Unless one of us here has a direct line to the people at SE who work with this sort of thing, we have no way of knowing.

As for items like the Eastern-themed additions popping up immediately prior to launch, that's just intelligent marketing. People who are content to wait until 4.0 will no doubt have access to a ton of that sort of content already built-in, even if the cash shop items remain technically unique.

[Burningskull]

My main point was, what's the difference between the Thavnarian gear in the game that you can get by crafting recipes, and the Fuga gear on the cash shop? Why is it ok to charge for one when they put the other one in the game? What is so different about them that they can't put all the glamour items in the game?

[Yallaid]

My main point was, what's the difference between the Thavnarian gear in the game that you can get by crafting recipes, and the Fuga gear on the cash shop? Why is it ok to charge for one when they put the other one in the game? What is so different about them that they can't put all the glamour items in the game?

To play devil's advocate against myself, can you imagine the insanity if all these great cosmetic outfits were tied to end-game crafting in-game, the way the Thavnarian set was originally?

I'm all for incentivizing people to play the game, but even I would balk when there were 10 different awesome looking sets available for every last cent of your hard earned gil or locked behind 200 hours of omnicrafter leveling.

I just don't think cash shop is the only way out of this bind, that's all.

[Burningskull]

To play devil's advocate against myself, can you imagine the insanity if all these great cosmetic outfits were tied to end-game crafting in-game, the way the Thavnarian set was originally?

I'm all for incentivizing people to play the game, but even I would balk when there were 10 different awesome looking sets available for every last cent of your hard earned gil or locked behind 200 hours of omnicrafter leveling.

I just don't think cash shop is the only way out of this bind, that's all.

Again I'm just wanting, preferably someone from SE, to say why one set of cometic gear is worth paying for. 18 bucks at that. When another set of cosmetic gear they put in the game, either as a recipe or a reward or w/e. The question applies to all the cash shop stuff. Like Mounts and emotes.

[Yallaid]

Again I'm just wanting, preferably someone from SE, to say why one set of cometic gear is worth paying for. 18 bucks at that. When another set of cosmetic gear they put in the game, either as a recipe or a reward or w/e. The question applies to all the cash shop stuff. Like Mounts and emotes.

I think the sad truth is, it comes down to exactly what Belhi is talking about: business. Likely the Thavnarian sets and some of the other things like it (Kirimu Coat) were going to be created already, because there was some content they'd been designed for or an NPC that needed to wear it first or something. Basically, the stuff that's cheap to produce or was already going to exist can just go right in game, no questions asked.

But the second they start spending time and resources to make something cool, just because they've heard people want it, now they have to start doing cost analysis. And it's exactly like has been said, most of this stuff flat out wouldn't exist if they didn't have a cash shop. They'd decide the effort creating these items would not be worth the pay-off of simply extending some players subs. They need a more direct stream of income in order to support that level of development.


Now why one set ends up on one side of the fence and another on the other side? I guess it's just called fate or something, right?