This is just appalling

[Valinis]

Non-seasonal cash shop items production isn't financed by sub fees but by cash shop sales. No cash shop sales, no items. Pretty simple.

That's not how a business works I'm afraid. The business functions as a whole, profit is profit regardless of the source. The income from ALL sources fund the development of these glamour pieces. You don't pay in advance for your mogstation items now do you?

Our subs pay for server rental, maintenance, customer service and core development including patch and event content.

Our subs pay the wages of SE, and everything else, and what's left is profit. You seem to think that SE isn't making any money from monthly subs and it simply covers running costs. I can guarantee you that the majority of SE's profit is coming from monthly subs, and not the cash shop as you seem to claim.

[Belhi]

False. Yoshi himself said that cash shop income goes directly back into cash shop development and SE's pockets, to do with what they want. He also stated that the EU and NA server moves were the first times their team had been given access to those funds. And the NA server move was a critical fail for several reasons, even for Californians. By buying cash shop items, east coaster players inadvertently shot themselves in the foot.

Actually he also said before that the EU datacentre was funded with cash shop funds. My point is as part of the revenue FF14 generates it helps justify the expense of costly upgrades as the likelihood of a return on investment is greater. Regardless, subscriptions aren't paying for them which is the core issue.

As for east coast players I guess in that case it was a lose/lose situation since without the move the servers couldn't be upgraded.

As far as I can tell people are upset there is something they want but that their sub doesn't give them and part of that is the mistaken belief that there sub actually payed for the development of the item in question. In short, we get what we are paying for but some people are upset that others who are willing to pay more have more things they can buy. Removing the Cash shop would get those who aren't buying anything, anything extra. All it would achieve is lower the revenue SE is making and make it harder to justify major investments into the game.

That's not how a business works I'm afraid. The business functions as a whole, profit is profit regardless of the source. The income from ALL sources fund the development of these glamour pieces. You don't pay in advance for your mogstation items now do you?

Our subs pay the wages of SE, and everything else, and what's left is profit. You seem to think that SE isn't making any money from monthly subs and it simply covers running costs.

It is how many businesses work. Revenue streams are tracked by their source as well as the expenses those sources. Thus you can determine if a particular venture or item is turning a profit and help identify why. That is a big part of what accountants do when developing income reports. It helps a business plan and adapt. The cash shop determines if a potential item design will turn a profit off the cost of development. This will be forecasted and then used as a measure by the executive wether to go forward with development. This is the case with Cash shop items. They are made if their earnings pay for the cost of development in the first place. They literally pay for themselves.

Now of course SE makes a profit from subs. However the revenue from those subs and expansion sales is used to determine the budget for the development of the core game (ie. expansions, patches, events, etc) and to determine if large investments into infrastructure will end up being a good return on investment. That is what our subs pay for. While Cash shop utilises the game as a platform for sales, it's revenue is self generated because the items developed are planned for the cash shop from inception and only approved of if the company believes they will profit as a result.

Basically by your logic our game is being payed for by players of every other SE game out there which would mean we are getting more than our sub pays for. Your basis for saying the majority of SE's profits are due to our monthly subs is baseless without proof and frankly unlikely due to the substancial costs to producing and running a company, ignoring the massive cost FF14 incurred with its failed original launch and the very profitable performance of a number of their other titles.

All revenues will end up in the same basic pot but the revenue streams and their expenses are tracked individually and managed on an individual basis. That is how business's work.

[Valinis]

You cannot foresee whether an item in the cash shop is going to turn a profit or not. The cost of creating these items, without a doubt, is funded by the revenue from other sources. Employees don't work for free on the hopes that their item will sell enough for them to get a paycheck from it.

However I'm sure there's no doubt at all that an item like this will profit, because there are people out there willing to pay absurd prices for exclusivity.

Basically by your logic our game is being payed for by players of every other SE game out there which would mean we are getting more than our sub pays for.

You are perfectly correct. How do you think FFXIV 2.0 even got funded? The money certainly didn't come from 1.0. I fail to see your logic in that we are "getting more than we pay for" when we literally pay hundreds of dollars to play this game long term.

[Valinis]

Do you have any idea how much income is generated by monthly subs alone?

Let's do some simple maths with hypothetical numbers:
$15 per month
100,000 subs
That's $1.5m per month

Based on census websites there are over 400,000 active subs in 2017. Pretty easy to see that they are making a lot of money from subs alone.

[Belhi]

You cannot foresee whether an item in the cash shop is going to turn a profit or not. The cost of creating these items, without a doubt, is funded by the revenue from other sources. Employees don't work for free on the hopes that their item will sell enough for them to get a paycheck from it.

However I'm sure there's no doubt at all that an item like this will profit, because there are people out there willing to pay absurd prices for exclusivity.

You are perfectly correct. How do you think FFXIV 2.0 even got funded? The money certainly didn't come from 1.0. I fail to see your logic in that we are "getting more than we pay for" when we literally pay hundreds of dollars to play this game long term.

Not always. Development can be funded by credit/loans. A lot of business is, particularly in sectors like the construction industry.

Sales forecasting is definitely a major part of any development of a product. You think they make stuff at random and hope it will sell? They look at the sales performance of other items and the perceived demand and do an assessment comparing the item to the projected likely sales to the development cost to decide if the item is developed. If the sales forecasts don't show a good chance of acceptable profit vs risk they won't develop the item. Yoshi P literally said this is the model SE uses for developing Mogstation items and it is the reason the Krile outfit hasn't been developed yet. The technical costs of the development for sale of the Krile outfit are high enough that there is a question of it would be profitable. It would have to sell well to be worth it.

Accounting is about balancing books. Revenue is balanced against expense. If the Revenue earned by a sales item exceeds the expense of its development, it is effectively paying for itself.

Do you have any idea how much income is generated by monthly subs alone?

Let's do some simple maths with hypothetical numbers:
$15 per month
100,000 subs
That's $1.5m per month

Based on census websites there are over 400,000 active subs in 2017. Pretty easy to see that they are making a lot of money from subs alone.

MMOs are by far among the most cost intensive entertainment software items to develop. Take a look at Blizzard's earning reports. Yeah WoW makes them a lot of money but it is hugely successful, on a scale much bigger than FF14, and Blizzard's other franchises like Hearthstone and Overwatch are highly competitive. WoW has been in decline but blizzard's earnings are up.

That is because the MMO market is quite a small portion of the gaming market and MMOs are expensive to make and maintain. Hearthstone comparatively was made with a tiny development team (like 20 people) and is now one of Blizzard's big earners. Small investment, huge earnings. The Mobile market in particular is huge. MMOs have been in decline for a while. There aren't many major western companies developing new ones in the current market. That is because the profitability verses cost investment of MMOs has been in the decline in the recent past.

SE has a lot of games it develops for a number of markets. Last Financial quarter SE reported its yearly revenue was around 2 billion dollars (Note this is revenue, not profit). Even with 1 million subs FF14 would be a $180 million of that, less than 10%.

[Valinis]

Basically what I understand from your posts is that you are saying FFXIV is solely driven by profit (they won't create anything that they can't make a buck from). If that's true, then that's pretty sad from a consumer point of view, knowing that the company doesn't care about me as a customer at all, only my wallet.

As others have stated, why can't items like this be tied to in-game content? Why must they double-dip for profits from it?

[Belhi]

Basically what I understand from your posts is that you are saying FFXIV is solely driven by profit (they won't create anything that they can't make a buck from). If that's true, then that's pretty sad from a consumer point of view, knowing that the company doesn't care about me as a customer at all, only my wallet.

As others have stated, why can't items like this be tied to in-game content? Why must they double-dip for profits from it?

Do you think game developers are charities? Of course they driven by a profit. Any publicly traded company is. That doesn't mean they won't make investments for the sake of their customers or spend money on things for their customers which on their own will not turn a profit but in a sense it is still related to profit since such actions sure up customer satisfaction. Good customers care for their companies but its a two way transaction. They offer a service or product and they are paid as a result. They have done that and frankly make a lot of effort to satisfy customers. The server upgrades were a major investment to satisfy customer desires for the quality of the service.

And where are you getting the idea they are double dipping?

Let me say it again. Non-seasonal cash shop items are NOT made with the budget allocated to the game due to its sub revenue. The reason they aren't tied to in-game content is because they are made with funds allocated outside the budget that SE uses to develop in game content. If they weren't in the cash shop, THEY WOULD NOT BE CREATED IN THE FIRST PLACE. The Fuga Attire wouldn't have even been developed in the first place. Your basically asking them to give away more than you paid for, for free and complaining that they aren't.

Now there is an argument that seasonal items are paid for by the sub fee but technically they were paid for by the people playing at the time the items WERE free in game so anyone not subbed at the time didn't in fact pay for it.

[Aramina]

Basically what I understand from your posts is that you are saying FFXIV is solely driven by profit (they won't create anything that they can't make a buck from). If that's true, then that's pretty sad from a consumer point of view, knowing that the company doesn't care about me as a customer at all, only my wallet.

As others have stated, why can't items like this be tied to in-game content? Why must they double-dip for profits from it?

Do you tell your boss to pay you less because someone else decided you make more than enough money? That's exactly what you are expecting SE to do.

[HPDelron]

Fair point of course, but there's nothing wrong with saying why you might be a "Fredric the Frugal". The idea of this forum is to give feedback, yes?

Voting with their wallets may be the most important thing (however ineffectual in the face of a less pensive market), but they still have every right to express their opinion; even if it does come across as just ineffectual complaining to some.

Certainly yes. I'd never say the Fredrics out there should "shut up" or that they shouldn't voice their opinion. However, likewise I have an opinion and I wish to express it. My opinion differs from theirs. This being a public discussion forum if somebody is expressing an opinion that differs from mine, I'll argue the point with them. Doesn't mean that they've not right to express what they're expressing or that the act of them expressing their opinions is in and of itself wrong. It just mean I disagree and... well you know...:
https://xkcd.com/386/

[HyoMinPark]

Basically what I understand from your posts is that you are saying FFXIV is solely driven by profit (they won't create anything that they can't make a buck from). If that's true, then that's pretty sad from a consumer point of view, knowing that the company doesn't care about me as a customer at all, only my wallet.

That's the way all businesses operate. I'm certain that if you had a business, while you would be concerned about customer satisfaction, you would also be concerned about your daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly profits. Because you would have business bills to pay. You would have to pay to rent the space your business occupies. You would have to pay your employees. You would have to pay for supplies your business may need. You would have to pay for electricity and water. I could go on. Businesses that don't make any money slowly go out of business. Or are bought up by larger businesses. You can't expect SE to just have one source of income (subscriptions).

As others have stated, why can't items like this be tied to in-game content? Why must they double-dip for profits from it?

Why must I pay extra to get extra movie channels from my television provider? Or pay extra to get more cellular data from my phone company? Or pay extra on my housing insurance to get things such as flood coverage? By your logic, all of these would be considered double-dipping for profit as well. If you want extra items, expect to have to pay extra for them. I don't expect my phone company to just randomly give me an extra 10 GB of data a month for free.

There are items tied to in-game content. Just look at the recent events:
Heavensturn event: new glamour items (the masks)
Valentine's event: new emote (/dote)
Easter event: new mount (Egg mount)
Little Ladies' Day event: new glamour items (Songbird attire), new emote (/songbird), new housing item (cherry blossom petal pile)
Gold Saucer event: MGP bonus, new hairstyle (Rainmaker, which I see you sporting), new housing item (stuffed Sabotender)

You're making it sound like there are no in-game items with regards to all these extras, but that isn't the case.