We're all DDs now >.>

[Miste]

I've discussed the topic time and time again actually. It's just got to the point that I'm asking why are people complaining about the same thing over and over again. As I stated in my other comment, nothing more needs to be said. Everyone says the same thing.

In previous topics yeah, but in this one all you post is how annoyed you were so I was a bit confused. So I asked you why since I saw your other post in this thread saying how tired and annoyed you were and this new one as well.

No offense but this forum probably isn't going to stop arguing about certain things any time soon...new people come in and start topics who weren't around for the old topics on the same subject so arguments get recycled sometimes :/

Just figured it would be better for you not to read it so you don't get annoyed, that's all. I was also curious/confused since you actively bump a topic that annoys you to read it.

[Seoulstar]

but youve said your opinion too already. so why not drop it? You keep bumping the very thread you wish didnt exist right now.

I bumped it? You may need to look again.

[SlogDog]

Its hard to be a drama queen if you are not currently outraged and inviting yourself into conversations that are contrary to your interests so that you can look down your nose and attempt to steer the conversation towards yourself.

[Faliandra]

I bumped it? You may need to look again.

no,youre bumping it right now. every time you post. Maybe not all the way from page 3 to the top, but you certainly make an effort to keep it on top of page 1 this way.

[Seoulstar]

no,youre bumping it right now. every time you post. Maybe not all the way from page 3 to the top, but you certainly make an effort to keep it on top of page 1 this way.

And you were as well, we both are. So how about we both just simply stop~

[Faliandra]

And you were as well, we both are. So how about we both just simply stop~

Yeah I am but I'm not complaining about how annoying this is
So your turn to stop for now ^^

[Ama_Hamada]

While I couldn't say there was content requiring only healing, but I can say that stance dancing with the clunky, un-intuitive Cleric Stance (especially with 180~ping) is often frustrating and could be a contributing factor to not DPSing. I don't know how it fares with low ping, but it's a pain in the ass with moderate ping to say the least. Thankfully that won't be an issue in SB though.

You can apply this to any ability use or any ogcd though. Healing is clunky because how delayed Lustrate is and can fail if pressed too fast after something to make it delayed even more ( Dissipation) It is even worse in PvP (god the balance issues are insane there)

[Ama_Hamada]

Kisa Kisa, spoiler warning for this vid, since i190 there is no way you did it yet, it is the last MSQ dungeon:

https://youtu.be/eC8PuW58I-M

This video is a bad Tank and a bad DPS ( the mnk) should be clear for anyone that mains these jobs. The DPS was so low we saw a second collar. Even with all the bad, my friend still had time to DPS a considerable amount. So what is this about healers shouldn't DPS now?

Names blacked out on everything to follow forum rules. Friend states the war was complaining about lag so just before the last pull she went afk to bathroom to give him time to fix it. I do not think lag excuses the severe lack of ability use (no prepull prep? unchained? pulled with weakness?) for the opening pull and letting the healer take hate.

[KisaiTenshi]

Kisa Kisa, spoiler warning for this vid, since i190 there is no way you did it yet, it is the last MSQ dungeon:

https://youtu.be/eC8PuW58I-M

This video is a bad Tank and a bad DPS ( the mnk) should be clear for anyone that mains these jobs. The DPS was so low we saw a second collar. Even with all the bad, my friend still had time to DPS a considerable amount. So what is this about healers shouldn't DPS now?

Names blacked out on everything to follow forum rules. Friend states the war was complaining about lag so just before the last pull she went afk to bathroom to give him time to fix it. I do not think lag excuses the severe lack of ability use (no prepull prep? unchained? pulled with weakness?) for the opening pull and letting the healer take hate.

We're restarting this argument again? Okay let me repeat what I said before because it seems like y'all want to play the "casuals are stupid", "raiders are also stupid" game.

1) This game does not forgive stupid. If you have a bad DPS, that is because they're a bad DPS. The same goes for any other role.
2) It is not the Tank or Healer's job to DPS. If the DPS play poorly, the tank and healer can requeue faster than the DPS can.
3) Raiders ignore mechanics, casuals ignore efficiency.

The healer ran out of MP 45 seconds into the dungeon because they died. If you run out of MP as a healer, you are playing poorly, or your team is not working. The fact that this took less than 4 minutes suggests that everyone was overgeared anyhow, so I'm not sure what you are trying to impress here, that the Healer had enough opportunity to DPS, die and have no MP afterwards, or that the DPS had to raise the healer.

That is not how they design the dungeon. The dungeon has specific mechanics that you play as designed, or you leverage what you have to make it go faster/do-less-damage.
If your party is good at dodging AOE's, or taking out "object-that-will-cause-lots-of-damage", you may remember that the final boss of the Vault and the final boss of the "Brayflox Longstop hard" has the same mechanics. What do you do with Brayflox? You use any AOE to blow the bombs away, that is usually up to the healer because good gawd, someone might not follow the mechanics and get hit by multiple bombs. What do you do in the Vault? there enough time to maybe take out one of the holy flames, but it's better to just cast stoneskin or medica II because any left over will do heavy damage.

I've played both of these a few times recently, and yes players are ignoring the mechanics, sometimes in horribly stupid ways, but a good healer can actually make up for this. If you have a perfect team that dodges all the AOE's, and a tank that manages to keep hate all the time, then a healer may have that opportunity to DPS, but that is not very often, and a healer that is spending more time DPS'ing than healing either has a good team, or is playing poorly on purpose~.

This argument keeps coming back because obviously the Cleric Stance is a terrible mechanic that should have been thrown away the minute Yoshi-P became involved with V1.0. It exists to do solo content. The same with tanks stance dancing. The changes to V4.0 are clearly meant to get players to play the game as the roles they are given and not everyone be half time DPS. By removing the cleric stance mechanic, that means healers can opportunisticly use their entire toolkit, and not be force to decide if that 5 second CS switch in and out is going to flatten the party. Because good gawd why would anyone ever want to just be stuck casting Cure I, Cure II and Medica~.

The loudest complaints on the forum are from people who are playing the game wrong, know better, but complain anyway that their lazy strategy won't be as effective. So what. You know what I bet is going to happen? I bet that everyone will just keep playing the raids the way they were before, absent missing skills and they will just have to take an extra minute and play with a better strategy.

I mean really, where is the fun in facerolling over content? If you're not regularly playing the leveling queue, and playing with people of all sorts of skill levels, then you're probably just playing with static's or the FC members you actually give a care about most of the time. That's what happens in all games. There is no incentive to play with strangers outside the DF bonus tomes. So many of y'all are like "ugh, have to play with scrubs for tomes, brb" rather than actually having fun~. Like really, I've been witness to the entire "guild is full of mooches" and "guild is full of eliteists using unauthorized tools/paid others to grind for them" thing before in another game, it's quite frankly embarrassing how often you find out that supposedly good players are just lazy players who paid other people to grind for them. So I'm extremely skeptical about people who claim they are good at this game, or any game, and all this thread proved is that many people are are accusing others of the very same thing they are doing themselves.

Raiders are being jerks to casual players, casual players are being jerks to those who they also deem lazy, there's two different play styles for healer here, and the way you play the raid content is not the way you play the MSQ content or any other 4-man content. 4-man content has one healer, and if you are telling them to DPS, you are telling them to play the game as a role they did not sign up for. If you want to play MSQ/level50/level60 content like you would a raid, do everyone a favor and use your static to play the dungeon instead of trying to convince casual players they are bad.

A bad player does not get through content except by being carried. That is why I said looking at achievements or gear proves absolutely nothing, if you are looking at that then you're only looking for some argument ad hominem instead of trying to disprove the argument. I can make the same statement that anyone using a parser for any reason is cheating. Thus the only way you would know if the healer DPS counts is by cheating.

Hence reductio ad absurdum. Anyone who says healer DPS matters must therefor be cheating~!

So no, I don't see what you're trying to prove here Ama.

[Gamer3427]

As someone who frequently plays SCH, and DPSs quite a bit, I can see both sides of this argument. Personally, I'm of the opinion though that you should DPS when you can, but never to the detriment of your healing. The problem is that the community values speed above all else, so they forget that a healer DPSing constantly means they're not healing. I'd always take a healer who never DPSs but keeps the party at full health over a healer that DPSs constantly and speeds up the run, but lets half the party nearly die before blowing all their cooldowns at once to bring everyone back up. I have been guilty of falling into the latter before, of course, but typically only in content I've healed plenty before and after I know the tank can handle the pulls they're doing long enough for me to get some spells off. If I'm in content I'm not as familiar with, or if I know that the tank is undergeared or bad, or that the boss is going to be doing heavy damage, you can bet that I'll stay out of Cleric Stance and stand there preparing to keep everyone healed up. If someone isn't comfortable DPSing as a non-DPS role, they shouldn't feel forced by their party members to do so......

Unfortunately, the mentality of the playerbase isn't going to change anytime soon, simply because there are less and less players who are playing for the content itself, and more and more are just playing for the "end goal" that you get when you beat the content. As a result, many just want to clear it quickly, even if it's to the detriment of both their experience in the run itself, and that of the party. To add to this, it seems like fewer and fewer players are actually willing to listen to the advice of others should they be doing something wrong in their role. This in turn means rather than the poorer or newer players improving, they're having to be carried, which in turn forces more Healer and Tank DPSing to be required rather than optional. Of course, it isn't just those players faults, since fewer players are willing to explain mechanics of bosses even if they're asked simply because a high DPS party can ignore the mechanics, which hurts the newer players when they get a lower DPS party and have no idea what to do to keep from wiping. I've been playing for two and a half years, and there's some runs that I still have no clue on the exact details on the mechanics on certain bosses......