We're all DDs now >.>

[missybee]

If someone is playing a healer, they have no down time or the party would be dead in 5 seconds.

I said this in my last post - at the beginning of a massive pull, it MIGHT be kind of hard to DPS while keeping the tank alive, but after a few mobs have died, there should be no issues.

With regard to most boss fights - if you aren't DPSing during those, what the heck are you doing?

People aren't making these "stories" of healer down time up. If you don't have down time, it's because you aren't playing to the job's full potential, and if you don't try to improve or at least entertain opposing viewpoints, you are being childish and lazy.

[Shurrikhan]

The fact that you can even describe a parser tells me you've used one. Every data-mined thing about this game was acquired via such activity. So no, it's only obvious that someone is not playing to their potential when they are not even trying.

If someone is playing a healer, they have no down time or the party would be dead in 5 seconds. People who are accusing non-DPS'ing healers of being lazy, have no idea how the other person is playing the game, and telling them to use whatever some wiki says, does not teach them the mechanics of the game, it only tells them you think they are not smart enough to play the game at all.

Data-mining and parsing are two different things. One is finding, typically hidden, factual information such as skill effects, item stats, animations, skins, or music before its official release. The other is, effectively, an automated spreadsheet.

And how the hell did you reach level 60 without personally finding fault in that idea? The party would inevitably die within 5 seconds of a healer not healing? Literally, what? I seriously have to wonder if you're using a borrowed account that you have yet to heal more than a couple instances on, and all with particularly poor parties atop incredibly inefficient healing.

[akaneakki]

The fact

The fact you just heal, doesn't mean you are a good one. There are times I would pull a lot and even use cooldown and still die. Where a good/great healer knows when damage comes, knows when to dps and when to stop. Personal experience most raw healers tend to be worse. They just think damage is random when it's actually scripted. So sitting around not using the tools you have isn't any better. Let me ask you this. Can you solo heal 10s? An example.

[Ama_Hamada]

The fact you just heal, doesn't mean you are a good one. There are times I would pull a lot and even use cooldown and still die. Where a good/great healer knows when damage comes, knows when to dps and when to stop. Personal experience most raw healers tend to be worse. They just think damage is random when it's actually scripted. So sitting around not using the tools you have isn't any better. Let me ask you this. Can you solo heal 10s? An example.

She never seen a10N let alone a10S and how do you solo that with the prey mechanic? I am guessing asking people to adjust to random target? is too much for a PF to ask for (remeber your speaking to i190 gear so they are locked out of all current content)

[akaneakki]

nt)

With 1 healer you have person with prey to either Ranged or tank. I would go with tanks for less dmg while melee stand between x2 fire puddles. And bullshit that she says people die in 5 second. Me and the ast did over 1.3k dps before numbers in 11s. In fact never left cleric for nearly a min and half. I know when damage comes and not. Kinda funny the fact Sch in my seller linkshell does 1.4k dps in 12s while second healer is at 900. Hmmmmm....

[Jeycht]

That topic is still up?
You should stop answering to that Kisai guy. He is either trolling or ignorant. Anyway he will probably never admit being wrong and keep repeating the same thing over and over.
I haven't seen any real post from that player except troll-like post.

[Lambdafish]

That topic is still up?
You should stop answering to that Kisai guy. He is either trolling or ignorant. Anyway he will probably never admit being wrong and keep repeating the same thing over and over.
I haven't seen any real post from that player except troll-like post.

Stormblood isn't out for another 10 days, I need some way to stay entertained

[MirielleLavandre]

So surprised my thread is still going...I think, and hope, that we all agree on a few things even if many seem to be in disagreement over some things. I think that everyone agrees that IF THERE IS DOWNTIME, healers should do SOMETHING - anything - instead of just standing there. Like I wrote before, healers need comfort/experience in duty and with dps-ing, as well as downtime to dps in, in order to dps. RP purposes and 'playstyle' can also come into this, though even those RP people should at least RP some if they have downtime and can't dps for RP reasons >.> <.< I think in Kisa's defense, she/he states she has no downtime, and thus it makes sense she can't dps. I, personally, have so much downtime I could probably play both FFXI [dps-ing in FFXI....erm.... how about a light skill chain with banish/dia/holy...that's about it ^_^] and FF14 at the same time if I didn't dps, but again - it is a difference in playstyle and probably comfort

I don't think Kisa is saying that healers shouldn't dps - maybe she's saying they shouldn't be 'expected' to dps if they can't or don't have the downtime to? Not sure since sometimes the arguments are a lil hard to follow ^^ Maybe I am wrong and she's saying healers shouldn't dps even if they have the downtime, which in that case I suppose I'd have to disagree a little since what else is one to do during downtime?

Anyways - thanks again all for the input - I, too, hope that any new players who read this thread come away with this, at least:
- If you have downtime, are comfortable with the duty, and not RP'ing a peace loving flower-child, then at least cast something during said downtime, even a tiny non-cleric stance debuff if you don't like 'stance dancing' (which is gone in 10 days...)
- No one should kick/abuse healers who can't dps b/c they lack any of the above and don't dps (downtime/comfort)
- At the same time, no healer should just stand around doing absolutely nothing while other people do at least something (even if the dps is not doing a correct rotation // looking at you, ice mages....)

Let's all have fun and hopefully agree on these points? SB is coming soon -- maybe dungeons will be tuned enough to require a little more active healing like the Vault did in HW. On the bright side, at least Cure2 gives a guaranteed Lily now... >.> <.<

[Aramina]

I don't think Kisa is saying that healers shouldn't dps - maybe she's saying they shouldn't be 'expected' to dps if they can't or don't have the downtime to? Not sure since sometimes the arguments are a lil hard to follow ^^ Maybe I am wrong and she's saying healers shouldn't dps even if they have the downtime, which in that case I suppose I'd have to disagree a little since what else is one to do during downtime?

A little of both really. Her premise is that healers having downtime is a myth... that if you go more than 5 seconds without healing the tank the group will wipe unless you vastly outgear it.

Anyways - thanks again all for the input - I, too, hope that any new players who read this thread come away with this, at least:
- If you have downtime, are comfortable with the duty, and not RP'ing a peace loving flower-child, then at least cast something during said downtime, even a tiny non-cleric stance debuff if you don't like 'stance dancing' (which is gone in 10 days...)
- No one should kick/abuse healers who can't dps b/c they lack any of the above and don't dps (downtime/comfort)
- At the same time, no healer should just stand around doing absolutely nothing while other people do at least something (even if the dps is not doing a correct rotation // looking at you, ice mages....)

I can 100% agree with this.

[Waliel]

Also, as a healer (and a tank though I never mained a tank) in WoW you were/are absolutely expected to do damage when healing was covered in high end raiding. The only thing that changes is how much you are able to do that.

I don't know how it is nowadays, but when I was raid healing in the vanilla to wrath era, there was absolutely zero expectations for healer deeps. This is actually the first game I've seen where people expect healers to do anything but heal - healers where part of their whole healing kit is tied to damage not withstanding. Closest I've seen was in Aion with that staff class that was a pure support being a 1/3 healer, 1/3 damage and 1/3 group buffs.

I wish mobs did damage in this game outside of tankbusters or big AoEs. I felt sad in A4S when the boss was hitting for 2000 and it took forever to kill everyone when we called for a wipe.