We're all DDs now >.>

[Hamada]

This is going off topic, but I support them because of transparency: I have seen people berating others for "low DPS" when in fact the person "calling out" others was the lowest one, and no one could say the truth out loud because they'd risk getting banned. The reason I believe many healer DPS supporter support parsers is that both (to me) are about active participation and pulling one's weight in a team. Harassment on theother hand is something I won't stand - with or without parsers.

I have seen that and best my friend could comment was the enmity meter. (she knew what the dps was due to steam, she refuses to use programs deemed illegal) Then the "enmity does not reflect dps" card was pulled and can't really say anything more other then reporting them for harassment for the comments. The only time it is really off is any enmity modfiers like tanks, ninja abilities, and quelling. Next up is SMN, you can REALLY be deceived by SMN especially off it. Pet adds a lot, awful lot.

The problem though is GMs are too reactive and we do not even know if they take action when they should. You also need to consider they seem to be lacking in the number of GM staff. That is my concern with parsers. It will provoke the general mass to make too much harassments because of it.

I can assure you it was not healers being blamed for people standing in bad. I don't think FF players are so far removed from anything resembling intelligent thought that they would somehow be different.

Today that very thing happened, if a run fails healers are the one to be finger pointed too.
"why tf did everyone quit this is easy as s***"
"bad heals man"
(reason it was 10 minutes later, and yes literal 10 minutes, not 11, not 9, was from waiting on a second healer)
*10 minutes later*
This same person gets 1 shot from standing in bad. yeeeeahhh sure it was healer fault, the run was very hard to heal.
(I also remarked on this, no reply, I think that is the true reflection of someone accepting being burned by a comment "your bad dodging cant be healed")

Seen it in a1s even when the real blame was lack of dps and bad rasin placement to help with that.

[Aramina]

Today that very thing happened, if a run fails healers are the one to be finger pointed too. Seen it in a1s even when the real blame was lack of dps and bad rasin placement to help with that.

I didn't mean to imply it would -never- happen. How often have you seen it happen? Is it really all that often? I feel like I play the game in the Twilight Zone because all of these horrible experiences people seem to have I seem to not have 99% of the time.

[Shurrikhan]

'm pointing out that meters would discourage dps from following mechs even more because any drop in dps would reflect badly on them, foisting mechanical responsibilities on tanks and Heals. If you wanna call realistic expectations shit stirring, I have quite different concerns.

If anything I see the opposite. Because people fear the crippling dps loss that comes with death, for which parsing makes them are accountable more directly than their healers, they tend to dodge anything they know could kill them unless absolutely positive someone would immunize them through it for the necessary added dps. And it's always been fully within the healers rights in those situations to say that someone, who's frequently edging death and savable only at great mana cost, isn't worth it; their being more important people or more immediate or direct outputs to prioritize instead.

[Hamada]

I didn't mean to imply it would -never- happen. How often have you seen it happen? Is it really all that often? I feel like I play the game in the Twilight Zone because all of these horrible experiences people seem to have I seem to not have 99% of the time.

The fact I seen that in A1S should say a lot.
1. the fact a wipe even happened there due to lack of DPS, (over dps one robot to cause early self destruct derping I do not even care about, mistakes happen)
2. Blaming the healer on top of actually seeing that?^

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh.....

Seen it on ozma semi often too, and the reverse "You should of dodged the unlovable dot so I have an excuse not to esuna you to let you die to 5 stack bleed" Yes they did spread out, but it does not avoid it completely =.=

[KaijinRhada]

If anything I see the opposite. Because people fear the crippling dps loss that comes with death, for which parsing makes them are accountable more directly than their healers, they tend to dodge anything they know could kill them unless absolutely positive someone would immunize them through it for the necessary added dps. And it's always been fully within the healers rights in those situations to say that someone, who's frequently edging death and savable only at great mana cost, isn't worth it; their being more important people or more immediate or direct outputs to prioritize instead.

I would also like to add that DPS meters can also allow people to see output per target, damage dealt, damage taken, healing done and healing taken. I don't raid here, but I do in another game, and I can say having that information is indispensable.

We can see who is padding, who is actually killing adds, the needless damage people take, and if people are overhealing. Sure, people will tunnel, but in fights that require everyone to do mechanics, it's useful to see where you can tighten up your rotations, because most people that actually care about their performance should be able to watch themselves and not be chronically dead from mechanics.

[Aramina]

The fact I seen that in A1S should say a lot.
1. the fact a wipe even happened there due to lack of DPS, (over dps one robot to cause early self destruct derping I do not even care about, mistakes happen)
2. Blaming the healer on top of actually seeing that?^

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh.....

Perhaps I phrased my question wrong, what I mean was like "in 5/10 dungeon/raid failures the DPS are blamed" or "in 7/10 dungeon/raid failures the healers are blamed", not so much interested in a one off/once in a while thing but rather if it is something you (or others) are consistently seeing.

[Hamada]

Perhaps I phrased my question wrong, what I mean was like "in 5/10 dungeon/raid failures the DPS are blamed" or "in 7/10 dungeon/raid failures the healers are blamed", not so much interested in a one off/once in a while thing but rather if it is something you (or others) areconsistently seeing.

I do not keep track, I knew what you meant. I mean I was trying to imply I do not keep track but seeing a DPS fail on 20% echo then blame the healer on top of it?!!?!?!?!? that should speak for itself how far people will go to healer blame.

Since I go healer a lot and save most crap.. like entering this in progress:

"why tf did everyone quit this is easy as s***"
"bad heals man"
(reason it was 10 minutes later, and yes literal 10 minutes, not 11, not 9, was from waiting on a second healer)
*10 minutes later*
This same person gets 1 shot from standing in bad. yeeeeahhh sure it was healer fault, the run was very hard to heal.
(I also remarked on this, no reply, I think that is the true reflection of someone accepting being burned by a comment "your bad dodging cant be healed")

was a 11-17 min in progress Containment Bay Z1T9. (don't remember the exact time, it was something in the 10's) Most likely that was a full wipe or 2 blaming healers when it was improper dodging. (based what was said when I entered) I had to 90% full heal on the second phase pushing my mp use to the limit with some raises here and there. Also my friend got no coms on doing Bismark for our relics, despite going overtime with the healing and tanks taking too much damage. She was even taking the adds at one point. I see no coms in situations like that is blaming healers on deaths when it was others making things so sloppy. I can't remember if i got any, something she focuses more on with runs like that.

[Aramina]

I do not keep track, I knew what you meant. I mean I was trying to imply I do not keep track but seeing a DPS fail on 20% echo then blame the healer on top of it?!!?!?!?!? that should speak for itself how far people will go to healer blame.

Sorry it doesn't imply anything other than you were grouped with morons one time. /shrug As you wish though, I guess I will be happy with my Twilight Zone DFs

[Paladinleeds]

Personally, while I think the battle content design needs an overhaul to be much more healing intensive (such that casual players will only be able to heal due to the healing uptime required, but the cream of the crop Savage level players will still be able to DPS), what we have is very different in that if we're healing only, we're looking at 80% downtime (at least as far as bosses go, my experiences with trash are different, but they don't seem to reflect the majority here so...). And at least as far as SCH, mana management isn't an issue even when DPSing (WHM I hear can be a bit more... tricky, but I'll leave that to WHM mains to confirm or deny, since I'm not the best on that, same for AST though I hear is just as easy as SCH). So the watching mana to make sure you don't run out doesn't really fly (I'm speaking from SCH perspective here and will from here on out). I DPS because honestly, if I was stood there not doing anything I'd literally fall asleep (and probably still be able to keep people alive in dungeons it's that much of a cakewalk)! I started out as someone that hated DPSing, I thought a healer was meant to heal (coming from WoW where instances were designed that way such that you didn't get much time to DPS).

That being said, I agree something needs to change though as the DPS portion feels disjointed. Let's use Shaman from WoW as an example. They had a talent (at least back in WOTLK and I think Cata too), where their lightning bolt would reduce the mana cost of their I think chain heal. Something to that effect. It gave their DPS abilities some synergy with their healing toolkit. That being said, if we want healers to heal only, design the content that way, else, give us synergy between healing and DPS. Make it more rewarding for the healing aspect to DPS. That I feel would get people to DPS more if the healing and DPS toolkits worked together better. Right now (at least on bosses, with the pulls that occur on trash I find it harder to weave DPS in), it's usually a case of Adlo->E4E->Deployment pre-pull and then I'm DPSing for pretty much 100% of the boss fight.

[Hamada]

Sorry it doesn't imply anything other than you were grouped with morons one time. /shrug As you wish though, I guess I will be happy with my Twilight Zone DFs

it was more then one... and I had one today... is the point of that post, the a1s thing was a few days ago. sorry I was working on edits.

Personally, while I think the battle content design needs an overhaul to be much more healing intensive (such that casual players will only be able to heal due to the healing uptime required, but the cream of the crop Savage level players will still be able to DPS), what we have is very different in that if we're healing only, we're looking at 80% downtime (at least as far as bosses go, my experiences with trash are different, but they don't seem to reflect the majority here so...). And at least as far as SCH, mana management isn't an issue even when DPSing (WHM I hear can be a bit more... tricky, but I'll leave that to WHM mains to confirm or deny, since I'm not the best on that, same for AST though I hear is just as easy as SCH). So the watching mana to make sure you don't run out doesn't really fly (I'm speaking from SCH perspective here and will from here on out). I DPS because honestly, if I was stood there not doing anything I'd literally fall asleep (and probably still be able to keep people alive in dungeons it's that much of a cakewalk)! I started out as someone that hated DPSing, I thought a healer was meant to heal (coming from WoW where instances were designed that way such that you didn't get much time to DPS).

That being said, I agree something needs to change though as the DPS portion feels disjointed. Let's use Shaman from WoW as an example. They had a talent (at least back in WOTLK and I think Cata too), where their lightning bolt would reduce the mana cost of their I think chain heal. Something to that effect. It gave their DPS abilities some synergy with their healing toolkit. That being said, if we want healers to heal only, design the content that way, else, give us synergy between healing and DPS. Make it more rewarding for the healing aspect to DPS. That I feel would get people to DPS more if the healing and DPS toolkits worked together better. Right now (at least on bosses, with the pulls that occur on trash I find it harder to weave DPS in), it's usually a case of Adlo->E4E->Deployment pre-pull and then I'm DPSing for pretty much 100% of the boss fight.

WHM really depends on the party. If you have bad enough DPS, a WHM will go OOM. My friend asked for ballad from a brd doing 1200 AoE damage DPS (before ballad) to try to kill things at a reasonable rate. She started asking for that after the first boss in wall place.

With 3 good members? there is no mp management because things die too fast. Can say the same on say the likes of anything, Mp management only becomes a thing when people die too much. Ofc it depends on content though but ya whm is the hardest pressed for MP. also think of it like this, what is better? mp wise? shadowflare> Bio II > Miasma> Bio > Bane> Miasma II or 5 holys?