Healers not dpsing is not an issue it seems.

[Ashua]

A sample size of twelve when the Aether population in tens of thousands is... nothing. Curious what dungeons you ran because 9-14 minutes is pretty standard with a decent group and healers DPSing.

In the context of player base you are correct but I'm going by the number of those who post trying to make an issue out of nothing.

[whiteblade89]

Another main reason is that people simply don't watch what others are doing.

This describes me to a T. The only time I'm ever able to pay attention to what others are doing is when I'm healing. As a tank or dps, I'm far too busy doing my job to pay attention to the rest of the party's rotations. The only time I realize that something is up is if dps is just way too slow. And at that point, I blame the dps players. (Blame as in silently judge them while not saying anything). While healer dps does contribute to the overall speed of the run, I really couldn't care less if a healer doesn't dps. But at that point, healing is so damned boring that I wonder why a heal-only healer even plays the game.

[Cynfael]

In the context of player base you are correct but I'm going by the number of those who post trying to make an issue out of nothing.

Everything is ultimately in the larger context of the player base, and since much of the player base seems not to read (much less participate) in forums, no part of this works.

It's fair enough to state your opinion based on your personal experience, but let's not suggest any statistical relevance.

[Feidam]

Keep in mind a few factors. We are in a long content lull. A lot of more seasoned players aren't running many Experts nowadays. I mean, I can only speak for myself but I barely know what to do with all the Scripture I have. Granted, I wouldn't kick a heal only healer. I'd just roll my eyes and drop tank stance. That being said, this pertains more to Savage and the trickle down effect. Heal only healers have a significantly harder time getting into consistent statics. The death of Cleric Stance will only make that worse since people more easily justify you should be DPSing. The end result is even more casual oriented players adopt this approach. Are they going to call out or kick healers in dungeons for not DPSing? Probably not in large numbers. When it comes to Savage raiding though...

Personally, I think the loss of cleric stance might actually encourage healers that don't dps to try throwing some since they will no longer have to juggle the stance dance.

[Ashua]

Everything is ultimately in the larger context of the player base, and since much of the player base seems not to read (much less participate) in forums, no part of this works.

It's fair enough to state your opinion based on your personal experience, but let's not suggest any statistical relevance.

If that is the case then the threads outlining healers not doing damage is also not relevant.

[Kitfox]

If that is the case then the threads outlining healers not doing damage is also not relevant.

Healers not doing damage is a logical game mechanic argument, not a statistical representation argument. Your argument is that not doing damage is not a major issue because players are tolerant of it in casual content. It doesn't change the fact that your empirical sample group is entirely too small to draw any sort of conclusions. In my opinion, you're even right in your hypothesis, but your "research method" is entirely lacking in verifiable principles, which what you're being criticized on.

[Cynfael]

Healers not doing damage is a logical game mechanic argument, not a statistical representation argument. Your argument is that not doing damage is not a major issue because players are tolerant of it in casual content. It doesn't change the fact that your empirical sample group is entirely too small to draw any sort of conclusions. In my opinion, you're even right in your hypothesis, but your "research method" is entirely lacking in verifiable principles, which what you're being criticized on.

Exactly. I'd go so far as to agree that most players probably care little about what's going on around them unless there's a disaster in progress, but I wouldn't suggest that this notion or a handful of dungeon runs with players who choose not to communicate in chat represents any statistical "research" or devalues arguments in favor of healers pulling their full weight.

Besides, at least for me, the discussion over healer play style has never been primarily about what pleases or displeases the player base; my choosing to play well is much more about my enjoyment of the game (and efficient use of my play time) than it is about anyone else approving or disapproving of my choices.

[Ashua]

My overarching point was a experiment around one person. The entire time nothing was said to him for the entire week.. What I should have said is the complaints seem more the exception then the norm in casual content because most statements are centered around pug groups where the griping its happening. In that context I'm fairly sure if we went months without damage dealing the response would be as most seem to portray that they just do not care enough to gripe about it. But critique of the sample for one person is fair play I'll agree.

[Cynfael]

My overarching point was a experiment around one person. The entire time nothing was said to him for the entire week.. What I should have said is the complaints seem more the exception then the norm in casual content because most statements are centered around pug groups where the griping its happening. In that context I'm fairly sure if we went months without damage dealing the response would be as most seem to portray that they just do not care enough to gripe about it. But critique of the sample for one person is fair play I'll agree.

I feel like the sidebar discussion about your methods is overtaking your main point, and I don't actually mean to beat that to death.

To be honest, I suspect that a great deal of any griping precipitated by poor gameplay experience skips the in-game chat and comes straight to the forums. In the course of hundreds of duties, I've rarely witnessed or engaged in conversation during a run unless the players know each other.

- If the run is going great, many players will just thank their good luck and keep on trucking.

- If the run is average, most players are smart enough not to risk stopping the show to try to school a stranger on how to play better.

- If the run is utter garbage, they'll either drop or bitch a little, then drop.

When I witness another healer regularly spending their GCDs standing idle, I don't say anything. If healing appears to be the only damned thing they can do, I certainly am not going to encourage them to add "typing defensive replies" to their onerous list of responsibilities.

[Kitfox]

The thing is, if getting through the duty is your main objective, confronting bad players usually results in more time and effort spent than it gains time, so most of the time people obviously won't do it. It doesn't mean that bad players aren't bad or they aren't an issue. People are just taking the path of least resistance and venting off their frustration in other venues such as the forums.