Was anyone else disappointed in RDM? anyone?

[Vexander]

Hanging out in melee range is rather different from being melee. Just ask any Bard between Repelling Shots. Or the melee DPS when a Bard refuses to leave the melee space during spread AoEs... Without reason to do so, it is less often optimal than not to be in melee range. To say then that you "can" be in melee range does not suddenly make a melee caster, let alone a spellsword.

I never implied that it did make a melee caster or spellsword. My point was, your preferred playstyle isn't necessarily barred to you with the current set up. It may not have a hard benefit such as melee enjoy (who knows, maybe a RDM's melee strikes will benefit from being positioned behind the boss), but its still a playstyle you could engage in with minimal downside. I often see/hear a lot of players complaining about little challenge to the game. Make it for yourself I say. If you want to be a melee range RDM, go for it. It'll be a bit harder than being ranged for sure.

[MomomiMomi]

I wanted white magic that wasn't a cop-out of "well aero is white magic in XIV" - Cure, Regen, Dia.

They seem to have a cure and a raise.

Some RDM staples - Doublecast/Fast Cast/Chainspell. I wanted something special!

They have this too.

And why do I have to "balance" my "white" and "black" magic in order to stab something? It's nonsensical.

You don't have to, but it buffs your attacks.

[Jerbob]

(Things RDM apparently has)

I wasn't aware this had been confirmed, rather than just being speculated upon. That's very encouraging, thank you. Hopefully this and lots of other (supportive) white magic are nicely integrated into the package as a whole, not just tacked on.

You don't have to, but it buffs your attacks.

I dislike that this melee phase appears to be such a minor part of the process. If I am reading things correctly, you build up this balance of magic types to enhance the melee phase, so there's little point in activating that phase before it's appropriately enhanced? Even then, why is a balance of magic necessary to enhance melee strikes? From the video it doesn't look like that stored magic is doing anything - the RDM appears to simply deplete an arbitrary resource from arbitrary bars. It feels very tacked on - almost like it's merely a nod to historical RDM, rather than a fundamental aspect of the design. Perhaps it's more integral, and the videos we've seen just present it this way? I hope so.

I just feel that so much potential has been lost by cramming this RDM iteration into the inflexbile "ranged caster" label. Is there any reason why it couldn't have been developed as a close ranged, hybrid combatant? I genuinely don't know of any historical precedent for RDMs to fight at range, aside from the XI iteration, but that's a whole different can of worms.

[Duelle]

Yeah im not sure how its a turret. after a cast, the next cast will be instant, and can also proc another instant cast behindit. With swiftcast, you can have a possible 4 instant cast, and you can move during all of them, as well as follow up with a gap closer, and a bunch of melee attacks, and THEN back out of that.

That's like claiming BLM is not a turret because of firestarter and thundercloud procs. In addition to swiftcast and triple cast.

The job is a turret 90% of the time. The remaining 10% is composed of "dash in, spend 3 GCDs in melee and then jump out". And that's largely due to how slowly mana is generated and how the sword skills and the spells don't interact (using a melee attack removes chainspell, for example).

[MomomiMomi]

That's like claiming BLM is not a turret because of firestarter and thundercloud procs. In addition to swiftcast and triple cast.

That's not really similar since they can do it after every cast, not based on chance.

I wasn't aware this had been confirmed, rather than just being speculated upon. That's very encouraging, thank you. Hopefully this and lots of other (supportive) white magic are nicely integrated into the package as a whole, not just tacked on.

To be fair the cure/raise is speculation, but it's fairly well founded speculation. A 3600 MP cost spell that looks like Raise? It's probably Raise. The other spell's icon looks like Cure.

[RaijinSupreme]

That's like claiming BLM is not a turret because of firestarter and thundercloud procs. In addition to swiftcast and triple cast.

The job is a turret 90% of the time. The remaining 10% is composed of "dash in, spend 3 GCDs in melee and then jump out". And that's largely due to how slowly mana is generated and how the sword skills and the spells don't interact (using a melee attack removes chainspell, for example).

I'm not making any arguments for BLM. its by chance that you get a thundercloud proc. The regular rotation for BLM without considering chances for procs will require the blm to stand still for each of its cast, so if we wanna call it a turret because of that, sure.

Its not by chance that you get an instant cast for every cast for Red Mage. Its a chance that you get a second instant cast, and it doesn't need to be the same spell. That always guaranteed instant cast already makes he 50% more mobile than a BLM.

and its not even known that having black/white mana is required for performing the melee attacks. It could be the black/white mana just makes the melee attack do greater damage when the points are spent, seeing as yoshi-p did say having them balanced makes the attacks stronger. all we've seen in detail was the job action trailer, which we all not is not indicative of a viable rotation, or fully shows what each of the abilities actually do. I'm sure we haven't even see all the abilities.


ACTUALLY, I just rewatched the Live Letter when Yoshi-P was playing as the Red Mage, and at 1:40:30, he used a melee skill (the one in the bottom left corner) and it didn't spend any of the mana points he had accumulated (he was at 10/30 before he used the skill, and it stayed there). His auto attack was also a sword swing. The melee skill did remove the chainspell, but it would be kinda OP if it didn't. It seems like the spellblade, probably the more powerful melee attacks, are the ones that spend the mana, and maybe can only be used after reaching a certain threshhold.

All in all, it seems to be a lot more to the job than just stand here, and don't move. But you know, I honestly didn't want to have this kind of conversation in this thread. So im going back to trolling and imitating the salt.

[Blueyes]

ACTUALLY, I just rewatched the Live Letter when Yoshi-P was playing as the Red Mage, and at 1:40:30, he used a melee skill (the one in the bottom left corner) and it didn't spend any of the mana points he had accumulated.

This is correct. White and black mana are not requirements for executing weaponskills. Moreover, Chainspell appears to enhance the effect of a weaponskill which wasn't elaborated on. The Chainspell buff was consumed and the weaponskill was accompanied by a large fiery attack. The same weaponskill is used during the Job Actions video, supposedly without Chainspell in effect, and the fiery bonus damage was nowhere to be seen. Point is, the use of weaponskills aren't as limited as people think and there may be other specific Spellblade interacts we have yet to witness.

Coincidentally, when Riposte is used, and Chainspell is consumed, it would seem the off screen Ninja used the new Frog summon ability at the same moment.

[Naraku_Diabolos]

To me, RDM looks like it has a burst of elemental spells and physical combat. This is a good representation on how RDM should have been for FFXI, and they did it justice now on FFXIV. I mean, if you played XI, you can remember that RDM was more of a buffer and such with support with Refresh. However...RDM/NIN was GODLY.

[RaijinSupreme]

This is correct. White and black mana are not requirements for executing weaponskills. Moreover, Chainspell appears to enhance the effect of a weaponskill which wasn't elaborated on. The Chainspell buff was consumed and the weaponskill was accompanied by a large fiery attack. The same weaponskill is used during the Job Actions video, supposedly without Chainspell in effect, and the fiery bonus damage was nowhere to be seen. Point is, the use of weaponskills aren't as limited as people think and there may be other specific Spellblade interacts we have yet to witness.

OH! I didn't even notice that! that chainspell did buff the weapon attack! thats really cool lol. Yeah this job is becoming more and more interesting!

[Duelle]

Red Mage was mostly always casting spells from range in other Final Fantasy Games serving as either the sub-Black Mage or Sub-White Mage until the player could obtain a actual decent Black Mage or White Mage character to replace the Red Mage.

As I've said before, this is was due to the limits of turn-based combat. There's little else you can do with a job like RDM in turn-based combat. Hence why gimmicks like Doublecast had to be invented. Almost every mechanic that makes a hybrid shine does not work in turn-based games.

This is correct. White and black mana are not requirements for executing weaponskills.

I don't think anyone can claim the sword skills cannot be used on their own. The issue is that doing so is very likely to be suboptimal (because of how enhancements and spellblade activating past 30/30 seems to work). Which means if you're using sword skills as more than mana dumps, you're no different than an ice mage.

Moreover, Chainspell appears to enhance the effect of a weaponskill which wasn't elaborated on. The Chainspell buff was consumed and the weaponskill was accompanied by a large fiery attack.

The fiery attack is most likely Katon, since on the minimap you can see the NIN that's Yoshida's companion running well within range while staying out of camera. After Katon(?) hits, they run away from Yoshida towards the FATE taking place northeast of him.

I'd say all using that melee attack did is drop the Chainspell effect, which is no different than breaking a combo.