#RIPRDM

[Hyrist]

An offensive mage class in this game should NOT require outside help to barely function, and should not -expect-
others to fall on their swords to help them function.

We agree on that point but this isn't the argument. The argument is the willingness to use a skill when the situation calls for it and your insistence that a BLM will make better use of the MP and OGCD.

You don't owe FFXI's refresh bots anything, you do owe your teammates your co-operation if you wish to remain that. Therefore, if the situation calls for you to mana shift, you manashift. It's that simple. The lack of understanding of raid DPS vs player DPS and the capacity of skills like manashift to save a raid or push. Again, if I had to deal with being a Refresh bot for 10 years, you can handle using Manashift when the situation calls for it. If you need a summary you can translate my previous comment to: "Your complaints make me feel old, and you seem selfish."

Assuming existing mana reserves, 3k MP can potentially push a RDM over the 80/80 Mana threshold which is 970 potency an about 4.5 seconds without any MP cost. If a third of that 3k MP remains at the end, that potency jump spikes to 1520 - not including OGCDs from RDM at the time. Ignoring that potential is losing far more than a powered dot, or a 685 potency nuke. I'm not saying spam Mana Shift on Cooldown, but pay attention to when it can be very useful.

You will recover from one shortened rotation from your ideal. You will likely clip your rotation and/or your mana regeneration during the course of a elongated fight anyways due to forced fight downtime. Blm has the highest MP sustain of any class in the game. You have a tool to make use of that as a utility. Instead of resisting the idea of its use, learn how to use it ideally in your group.

Speculatively, manashift looks like a very good clutch/downtime skill. On the caster DPS side, RDM stems to benefit the most from it due to having the lowest MP recovery. I'd expect it to go to a MP starved healer first if that's occurring. However outright dismissing the skill's usage due to an obsession with optimized personal DPS is a red flag when looking for teammates.

That said, this situation will likely be pretty rare in the long run, as RDM benefits a more Physical Damage leaning group than most mages do. I see it paired with a DRG and a MCH or BRD, the latter two of course will have no qualms assisting with MP recovery. To round out the for it could be SAM or MNK depending on the AoE need. I'm actually curious to see if a RDM's Enchanted Sword skills will proc Chakras for MNK during Brotherhood. If so, that's a potential bonus.

[Psycofang]

We agree on that point but this isn't the argument. The argument is the willingness to use a skill when the situation calls for it and your insistence that a BLM will make better use of the MP and OGCD.

You don't owe FFXI's refresh bots anything, you do owe your teammates your co-operation if you wish to remain that. Therefore, if the situation calls for you to mana shift, you manashift. It's that simple. The lack of understanding of raid DPS vs player DPS and the capacity of skills like manashift to save a raid or push..

And if helping another player results in a net loss you hurt your raid more by helping them.

keep in mind this whole argument was under the assumption of the live steams cast times, not the updated ones, blm wouldve had to lose thunder (390 pot) foul (685 pot) and 1 fire 4 (481) i was under the assumption that blm would lose 1556+ potency if we were forced to help them which would have been damaging to a degree for what appears to be a 97 bonus to rdm.

But again like i said a post back, my data is old an incorrect, we have enough time to get our full damage + give rdm 3k worth then im all for it, if at any time rdm and the healer needs help ill choose the healer, if at any time helping rdm would become a net loss (Transferring during AF3/Bad sever ticks/ 30% weakeness) i will not help rdm.

that was what i was going off of and I was wrong which i admitted to.