A PSA to all concerned tanks

[SargentToughie]

Hey everybody!

So I've seen a pretty incredible amount of complaints and rage posts about the way that tanks are liable to be adjusted in 4.0. I've seen a huge number of my fellow WAR players voicing complaints about an extreme overhaul that can be seen as a nerf in a lot of different ways, I've seen Paladins worry that their new toys are simply band-aid fixes that won't let them compete with the more expanded competition, and I've seen Dark Knights worry that their niche will have vanished, and that they no longer have a focus, or a role in the team. Another huge point of contention has been the talk about how our primary stats scale, with us scaling dominantly off of STR but being VIT locked.

All I ask is that everybody please just take a moment to calm down, take a deep breath, and relax. This is a video game, you do not pay $15 a month to be this negatively impacted. There's a ton of information we don't have about each of the tanks and their playstyles, or how they plan to scale. Nothing stated in the liveletter indicates that they are going to be removing our attack scaling off of Vit, only adding more value to Strength. In the event that they do make us scale exclusively off of Strength, rest assured that I will be among the first to voice my complaints about what would be an awfully thought out, unfun change that pushes a lot of people from the role.

There's a lot we don't know, and while speculation and the voicing of concern now is totally valid, I'd ask that we all please hold off on calling a job 'dead' before we even see their entire toolkit for the new expansion. Nothing is certain, anything is possible.

Another thing to bear in mind is that if you have complaints about tanking, or you feel that the changes that will be made will push you from the role... Simply don't play it. For me personally, the information I've seen has led me to believe that I'm very likely to remain a dedicated DPS player for the new expansion, without returning to tanking. The devs have access to data and statistics for their playerbase, if you don't like the changes they make, it's as simple as leaving your tank at level 60.

If that means playing a new job, a new role, even unsubbing... Whatever form that takes, please take it. I don't think anybody should feel handcuffed to a job or feel a responsibility to level it out of job loyalty. Simply do what's best for you. If enough of the playerbase share's your sentiments, action will be taken. After all, can't do content without tanks, and I've seen a ton of tanks that don't entirely feel like tanking anymore since the liveletter. I know that for me personally, the liveletter didn't do a lot to reassure me that my own concerns will be addressed. Because of that, if 4.0 launches and doesn't amaze me, all 3 of my tanks are very, very likely to remain 60 for the duration of Stormblood.

TL;DR - Everybody just calm down and remember that the dime stops with you. Don't like the changes, don't level the job. Be a statistic! Either you'll be happier for it by doing something you enjoy, or the game will change.

EDIT: So I was wrong, new info just came from the translation about the way that the Vit to Str conversion affects our damage output. Again, I'm gonna hold my breath until early access, but if it's true, this doesn't bode well at all.

Regarding the discussion on the tank damage formula (which happens at around 4:20:00 in the Live Letter), the changes will "restore" it to its previous state. An analysis of the translation can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...damage_change/

Attack power will no longer scale with vitality. In addition, when discussing role-locked accessories, tanks were described as "Vitality Main", implying that the accessories will be vitality only and will not contribute to your dps outside of secondary stats.

[Edewen]

TL;DR - Everybody just calm down and remember that the dime stops with you. Don't like the changes, don't level the job. Be a statistic! Either you'll be happier for it by doing something you enjoy, or the game will change.

Bards can attest, this eventually works. Goodbye cast bars.

[XoanGrahm]

While I understand, its a game, etc.

It is disheartening to see tank damage getting nerfed yet again. The removal of VIT scaling to attack power, combined with the job locked accessories is a tremendous hit to us. To those saying it will not be that bad, I mean, we all saw the Fell Cleave damage in the live letter video. That was a level 70 warrior, in i290 gear, and the damage on them was outright pathetic.

I mean, a good number of us freaked out seeing 5 of them in a row, but when the strength of them is less than half what it used to be, whats the point? Its unfortunate, I really liked the way warrior played, it felt powerful, and it was nice to contribute to the outgoing damage like that. It seems that isn't going to be possible any more.

As to picking another class, I enjoy the tank roll, I like being able to take hits, dish it out in return, etc. I don't want to play another role, nor could the game really afford to loose more tanks at this specific point.

[Legion88]

It is disheartening to see tank damage getting nerfed yet again. The removal of VIT scaling to attack power, combined with the job locked accessories is a tremendous hit to us. To those saying it will not be that bad, I mean, we all saw the Fell Cleave damage in the live letter video. That was a level 70 warrior, in i290 gear, and the damage on them was outright pathetic.

I mean, a good number of us freaked out seeing 5 of them in a row, but when the strength of them is less than half what it used to be, whats the point? Its unfortunate, I really liked the way warrior played, it felt powerful, and it was nice to contribute to the outgoing damage like that. It seems that isn't going to be possible any more.

The Fell cLeaves in the LL were unbuffed and just around the damage a non-BiS-ilvl270-WAR would do...
By this it is natural that the damage is lower by expecting a fullVIT tank from the past before the prior change to tank damage from STR->STR/VIT.

The even bigger problem i see is how it will shift the lower levels, cause the prior shift killed just like 40% tankdamage and enmity in low level dungeons and this can hurt the tank community even harder while disheartening new tank players even harder than now.

[XoanGrahm]

You're 100% correct that the damage for them unbuffed is roughly the same as it is unbuffed now, but you also have to consider that the effect of berserk is being lowered as well. From its current 50% down to 30%, and that isn't even considering what other abilities might be adjusted or outright removed. This is also a 10 level gain and a 20 ilevel gain for the same damage we can do currently.

You're also correct that the issues of scaling, which S.E. actually pretty much seems to have issues with regardless, might be the bigger concern here. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. As I said, as a whole rather disheartening.

[SpookyGhost]

You're 100% correct that the damage for them unbuffed is roughly the same as it is unbuffed now, but you also have to consider that the effect of berserk is being lowered as well. From its current 50% down to 30%

Just woke up so can't write a long explanation, but there's a few things to consider: We get 6 FCs under Berserk now every other Zerk, we have access to the uppercut now (which is oGCD and costs 20 rage while dealing BB-equivalent damage), Infuriate's CD now gets reduced by 10s(5? can't remember) every time you use a rage-related move, and while Zerk is losing 20% of it's attack power buff it's CD is also being reduced by 30s and no more pacification with or without a Bard.

Also iirc we're getting 5 abilities in the expansion and we've only seen 3 (uppercut, shoulder tackle, release the beast) so those missing 2 could do any number of things.

Personally, though, my main concern is that the overall tank meta will remain to be staying in DPS stance for 99% of the fight and continuing to occasionally hit defensive CDs. I still prefer how WAR plays in tank stance and I feel like we'll never get back to that. Also losing Bloodbath sucks, but I'm not too hung up on that since I dunno what our missing 2 abilities do (plus we get Rampart, which is p crazy even if our self healing isn't as great now).

[TheCount]

You're 100% correct that the damage for them unbuffed is roughly the same as it is unbuffed now, but you also have to consider that the effect of berserk is being lowered as well. From its current 50% down to 30%, and that isn't even considering what other abilities might be adjusted or outright removed. This is also a 10 level gain and a 20 ilevel gain for the same damage we can do currently.

You're also correct that the issues of scaling, which S.E. actually pretty much seems to have issues with regardless, might be the bigger concern here. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. As I said, as a whole rather disheartening.

Now hold on. Berserk isn't getting nerfed, unlike what you think. The removal of the pacified effect and the lower cooldown means you can do it more often and not have to worry about being unable to use abilities for 5 seconds afterward either. The increased use more than makes up for the 20% loss

[Acidblood]

You're 100% correct that the damage for them unbuffed is roughly the same as it is unbuffed now, but you also have to consider that the effect of berserk is being lowered as well. From its current 50% down to 30%, and that isn't even considering what other abilities might be adjusted or outright removed. This is also a 10 level gain and a 20 ilevel gain for the same damage we can do currently.

While not necessarily a fan of Tank damage going back to scaling on STR (hey, at least it gives us something to meld? :/), I would point out that none of the other jobs did significantly more damage in the LL either, so I suspect the new formulas simply result in lower overall damage for the level / ilvl than what we have now.

[GDFletcher]

Not concerned at all, I in fact eagerly await 4.0 for my Paladin I know for sure that the class as finally been given the TLC it so badly needed. Now I need to play 4.0 changes to my PLD to see what I need to get my current tanking level in par with the new skills from 4.0 and see the changes it will bring to the opening pulls, positional play etc.

[Lyth]

Nothing stated in the liveletter indicates that they are going to be removing our attack scaling off of Vit, only adding more value to Strength. In the event that they do make us scale exclusively off of Strength, rest assured that I will be among the first to voice my complaints about what would be an awfully thought out, unfun change that pushes a lot of people from the role.

Regarding the discussion on the tank damage formula (which happens at around 4:20:00 in the Live Letter), the changes will "restore" it to its previous state. An analysis of the translation can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...damage_change/

Attack power will no longer scale with vitality. In addition, when discussing role-locked accessories, tanks were described as "Vitality Main", implying that the accessories will be vitality only and will not contribute to your dps outside of secondary stats.

Before you launch a campaign on our behalf, however, I think there's a few points worth mentioning. Switching to a Vit-only damage formula would require going back and changing every piece of left-side tank gear that has been released thus far. It would also mean that, if you were deciding on tank HP values for a new raid tier, you would not be able to independently control tank dps. You'd have to change the multiplier for attack power with every new tier of gear.

My main worry isn't the potential damage nerf. It's the damage scaling on tank accessories. If there's no STR on your accessories, then the only difference between tiers will come from secondary stats. This could work if tenacity is weighted highly enough. But overall, I think the best solution would be to have the accessories be VIT + STR (although the STR could be set significantly lower then the amount found on melee dps accessories, to achieve whatever balance they were aiming for). You want your group to be at least somewhat excited when tank accessories drop on the first floor of Omega. Not annoyed at it.