Are role actions a nerf?

[joannaluttrell]

Switching role skills freely in dungeon without penalty isn't a choice either. It's just a more complicated cooldown rotation where you should be using all of the skills but have to actively switch them in and out.

I have a choice of which abilities I use in a given fight rather than having all of them because 5/10 of them are completely useless.

[Hamada]

No, I didn't. And your example shows why you are laughing at something you don't understand. DPS always want to do the most DPS they can do, it's never not needed. in what situation will Fire III and Fire I killeverything in a dungeon/trial faster than having Fire IV? name one that currently exists in the game.

if the co-healer already has Protect it's not needed at all for the other healer. that's a situation where it might as well not be there.

same thing for Esuna, if there's nothing to cleanse for that trial or dungeon it's not needed. Moogle Extreme is the only Lv 50 EX Primals with something obvious to cleanse.

YOU just did..AGAIN!
if you are going to sit here saying protect is not needed but then you say something like "DPS always want to do the most DPS they can do, it's never not needed" you just destroyed your own argument why protect should be baseline! You really do not see this? Good healers want to maxmize DPS, this means minimize cast time healing, that is what protect does, that is what esuna does, it lets people have max uptime, it is no different then taking Fire IV away from baseline and saying oh it is not needed all the time.

Be no different then taking away healing spells and putting it on that list. Oh you do not need heal spells all the time, just when you have bad tanks who can't keep themselves up 24/7 (the reason why healers do not do much to begin with)

[Felis]

if you are going to sit here saying protect is not needed but then you say something like "DPS always want to do the most DPS they can do, it's never not needed" you just destroyed your own argument why protect should be baseline!

Protect =/= Stone Skin
If in a 8 man group 1 healer have Protect, then the other healer don't need it. Because 1 healer with Protect is enough.

Be no different then taking away healing spells and putting it on that list. Oh you do not need heal spells all the time, just when you have bad tanks who can't keep themselves up 24/7 (the reason why healers do not do much to begin with)

No healer would cast Protect every 30 sec like heal and not in duo.

[Hamada]

Protect =/= Stone Skin
If in a 8 man group 1 healer have Protect, then the other healer don't need it. Because 1 healer with Protect is enough.


No healer would cast Protect every 30 sec like heal and not in duo.

Where did I say protect = stoneskin?

It does not matter "If in a 8 man group 1 healer have Protect, then the other healer don't need it" You are missing the point, that only shows flaw in this system. Why should I go in a DF and spend 5 minutes talking about what spells to use? it is counter productive in making things "easier" Putting on protect to start a run, taking it off, then putting it back on because someone dies is not something I am going to find fun. Protect should be baseline, PERIOD

You want LESS people to play hears? this is good for bringing that out.

" Are role actions a nerf?"

From what we have been shown so far, yes, yes they are. WHM got hurt the most by this "Nerf"

It is a skill road block for those of lesser skilled, and an annoyance for those that know what to do. Nothing good comes out of it except shifting the illusion of choice spectrum.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

I am not trying to be rude, honestly, but how can something that takes a few seconds be a big pain in the ass? Like... I get that you don't want to do it and that is fair, but come on now, aren't we being a little slightly over the top here?

To add on to this. You'd have to change your hotbar, too, as once a skill you had on the previous cross-role selection is replaced it'll serve no purpose being on your current hotbar - meaning you'd then have to either toggle to a different saved hotbar or manually replace a skill(s) every time.

So, a whole bunch of swapping around things; perhaps even numerous times in an instance if you wish to be optimal for each encounter and boss. People are already impatient and quick to rile up... this will only give them another reason; also I can't say I'll be too pleased with having to wait for a guy to do this and that, nor doing it myself. Whole bunch of unwanted and unnecessary tedium.

The system is not being simplified for players that don't read tooltips, they have said plenty of time [especially over the live letter] their big concern is how many abilities you can map to the cross bar.

Over and over they kept saying how this is going to be better for gamepad users [on every platform.]

If I'm swapping them out that regularly, then I'm not going to be swapping my hotbars around as well.

I'm just going to have ALL of the cross role skills on my bars and just use the ones I have selected.

No hotbar space saved...
In fact, now I've got 10 cross abilities on my bars at all times now...

[Neophyte]

Why should I go in a DF and spend 5 minutes talking about what spells to use?

If you are talking about normal trials/24-man: Just have protect slotted in advance, who cares? What are you missing then?
In 24-man you can switch it out if you want after the first boss. If you want to. If not, no big deal.
If it's true what another one here said skills are sloted automatically if you don't want to do it yourself.
Why do you care if you don't want to use Rescue, Break, etc. anyway in a low skill environment with strangers.

If you are talking about savage/extreme trials: Take that goddam minute! This is not a scrub random dungeon.
Who cares if we have to announce which tank takes which add, which position everyone goes, etc... anyway?
Yesterday after an wipe in a Zurvan kill we actually discussed what went wrong. What's the problem in saying, "btw gonna slot CS now instead prot" (or Rescue if you are often tethered to peole who run around like headless chicken in tether phase).
Those are supposed to be the challenging contents. One additional part to have some different strategies is nice there.
And the absolutly baseline of those are: Be able to talk and to adjust.
Do you know how OP cover+tempered will in Sophia Ex is? Do you know how OP rescue and Surecast will be there?
While average dps need 3 minutes to announce there number finally anyway, I'll just say "You prot, I rescue?"
Or, if like in A3s heavy status is useful "You prot, I heavy?"
Or both use break/rescue if no esuna is required.

I'll just have my 2-3 macros switching my skillsets and placing my skills on hotbar and will be used to it after a day.
If some1 is too lazy, too stupid or too insecure to switch now and then, just keeps his skills and keeps to the dungeons, trial roulette, normal raid and 24-man.
Lazy/Stupid/Insecure people who think a single 4-word sentence about strategy is to much don't belong into savage&Co.
If they join there will be much, much talk anyway because of them.

[Kaisinel]

Protect could possibly be changed as well, has anyone seen the tooltip for it?

[Neophyte]

Protect could possibly be changed as well, has anyone seen the tooltip for it?

Nope, every concern here is based on applying the few changes we actually know to the current unchanged HW rotations/abilities/playstyles.

It's a bit like this:
You want to buy a new car and notice: This new modell doesn't have an exhaust pipe anymore! How should that work?
... without knowing if it has a combustion motor (and they just forgot the exhaust) or if it's an electric motor and you don't need an exhaust at all.

[Felis]

Where did I say protect = stoneskin?

Because you sounded as if Protect have a short duration and need to be recast every time.

[Hamada]

If you are talking about normal trials/24-man: Just have protect slotted in advance, who cares? What are you missing then?
In 24-man you can switch it out if you want after the first boss. If you want to. If not, no big deal..

Because you sounded as if Protect have a short duration and need to be recast every time.

No I did not, and again a point is missed.

It is a skill road block for those of lesser skilled, and an annoyance for those that know what to do. Nothing good comes out of it except shifting the illusion of choice spectrum.

I underlined this for A REASON! Take a look at this:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3354919

Read every post in that thread. There is NO WAY you can sit here and tell me requiring the switching abilities in the middle of runs is not a skill roadblock for most.

Look at how people are confused on what to do with stat bonus points and you think people are going to be able manage this role system?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYU_eDMr4xE

Here is my reaction seeing what they put in the role system:

Personally I think this whole change is going to backfire hilariously.

I mean, think about it: SE has stated they want to (a) reduce button bloat, and (b) make the system more accessible / usable for casual players. Laudable goals, both, assuming they can be effectively achieved. But, it is arguable the nature of the role-based system might worsen both. Consider:

1.) Role-based skills are broad enough that it appears frequent swapping between skill combinations is encouraged. This means that users must integrate most or all of the Role-based skills onto their hotbars, rather than just the five I'd use now, all of which are relatively static.

2.) Role-based skills being flexible and guaranteed means the floodgates will be opened for players being told how to play. Think that situation is bad now? Wait until tanks start bitching at healers for not having Esuna selected. Wait until people wipe because the tank forgot to respec from a damage-oriented setup they were using for solo'ing. This isn't going to lead to a friendlier environment for casual or forgetful players.

Don't get me wrong, I think the role-based skill system is potentially a good idea - but it doesn't fix the problem. They've essentially removed the need to level other jobs, but shifted even MORE crucial abilities into optional skills. Healers in 3.x need to have Swiftcast, but now they need to make damned sure they've selected Esuna, too - and heaven help them if they don't. This would have worked a hell of a lot better if the role-based skills were optional things that gave non-crucial, but nonetheless useful, abilities. They should have behaved like Merit Point abilities in FFXI. Hell, they could have even allowed for the selection of a role-based Trait or two, something powerful, so people could really customize how their class felt. Instead, they've worsened almost all the problems of the cross-class system; the only thing they fixed (and it's debatable if this is a good thing or not) is the fact that players no longer have to level separate jobs they might not be interested in.

Truly a missed opportunity.