Ninja

[Arkenne]

Yeah, I kind of considered that.

Yea, that's precisely why I placed suiton inbetween GCDs instead of prepull so as to take advantage of the clipping and have more opportunities for auto-attacks to happen.
'Tis true that clipping GCDs is a DPS loss, but in order to make everything fit in at the opener, taking some advantage of clipping GCDs for the sake of more autoattacks may be valid... only in the opener tho.


Edit: Revising again, in order to make Bhavacakra happen first within the TA window, I offer you this one:
Huton > Hide > Suiton [Prepull]
SE > GS > SF(Mug) > SE(Kas) > GS(TA) > AE(Raiton) > SE(DwaD) > GS(Duality) > AE(Bhava) [about 18 seconds at 2s GCD]
No idea where to put the Pot tho, as the time constrain for TA is already very tight there... :/

[Sigmakan]

Sigmakan - it looks like your opener has TCJ resetting the ninjutsu cooldown. I am going by the assumption that it does not. I haven't seen a video where they use TCJ while ninjutsu is already on cooldown, so it remains to be seen. TCJ would be even more powerful if it does in fact resets cooldown - probably overly so.

There was a video where it did in fact reset the cooldown. @1:24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCT-2mQRUtA

[Laflama_Blanca]

Wow, that's a good catch! You absolutely do not want to use kassatsu prior to TCJ in that case. So now the opener gets an extra guaranteed crit raiton within trick attack + potion. Roughly:

Huton - Hide - Shadewalker - Raiton on the pull - Spinning Edge - Jugulate - Gust Slash - Shadow Fang - Mug - Spinning Edge - Gust Slash - Aeolean Edge - Spinning Edge - Gust Slash - Potion + Duality - Aeolean Edge - Spinning Edge - Raiton - Gust Slash - Ten Chi Jin - Fuma Shuriken - Raiton - Suiton - Trick Attack - Shadow Fang - Dream Within a Dream + Kassatsu - Spinning Edge - Raiton

[Sigmakan]

imo thats too long to get into a trick attack. Thats over 11 GCDs before trick goes up. You ideally want to get get trick up between 4-6 GCDs, as that seems to line up with other jobs the best. Next you want to get as much potency in that window.

With what I posted you get TA up quickly and get all of your oGCDs on cooldown as soon as possible. It also stacks a lot of the high potency moves underneath trick attack.

[Arkenne]

Suiton>Spinning>Gust>Jugulate>Aeolian>Kassatsu>Spinning>pot>Gust>Trick>Shadow Fang>Raiton>Spinning>DWD+Mug>Gust>Duality>Aeolian>TCJ>Fuma>Raiton (trick ends here)>Suiton.

It worries me the use of Suiton prepull and the usage of the Pot when you are leaving TA at right after the 5th GCD. It might not be very ping friendly, and even at a very low ping I feel like TA will be lost more often than not... but I think I have to test it out to see if its viable...
I would totally advise against delaying Shadow Fang tho. +48 potency increase in TA is not worth the 3 GCD delay (80 Potency loss).
Well, at least you should have anything between 72 to 84 Ninki by the time TenCJ happens in this one.

Huton - Hide - Shadewalker - Raiton on the pull - Spinning Edge - Jugulate - Gust Slash - Shadow Fang - Mug - Spinning Edge - Gust Slash - Aeolean Edge - Spinning Edge - Gust Slash - Potion + Duality - Aeolean Edge - Spinning Edge - Raiton - Gust Slash - Ten Chi Jin - Fuma Shuriken - Raiton - Suiton - Trick Attack - Shadow Fang - Dream Within a Dream + Kassatsu - Spinning Edge - Raiton

I have to agree that this is too long an opener.
Aprox 23 seconds of uptime before TenCJ, + Mug would mean 96 Ninki by the moment of its usage.
You should have plenty of room to improve it if thats the case :/

[Sigmakan]

Agreed, it looks good on paper, but a bad ping could really cause issues. And like I said, if the pull is sloppy theres a good chance you miss it. I've accidentally done trick after 5th GCD quite a few times in 3.0, so I do believe its possible. Part of me is worried that this rotation was what they had in mind and they optimized it on their in-house servers that have -13 ping lol

I've never had clipping issues with pots, so im not really worried about that part. The part that worries me is the raiton and the double oGCD. I could move mug to pre-TA if clipping is bad. The main goal is to get the 2nd raiton in TA.

I'm working with the assumption that someone else is applying slashing. In that case, youd only get 2-3 tics of shadowfang before you reapply it. By delaying the initial shadowfang you're ensuring it gets TA as well as other party buffs. I do agree that its something worth looking into.

[Arkenne]

Agreed, it looks good on paper.

I'm working with the assumption that someone else is applying slashing.

Well, I've also used it at the 5th GCD, but if I use a Pot before that I lose TA, so thats why I comment it :/

The slashing debuff is a bit negligible in this case, since you have to do SF at some point, the slashing debuff will be applied like it or not. Besides the slashing debuff doesn't affect the DoT :/
I am not recommending the usage of SF first for the slashing debuff, but that by delaying it to the 6th GCD you lose the chance for 2 40 potency ticks from the SF DoT.

Lets say that somehow we don't get any buff in the first 5 GCDs but get +10% aside from TA by the moment SF hits on the 6th. You would gain 16 Potency out of that...
Only buffs that comes to mind that could fit this criteria are:
- Dragon's Sight from DRGs (+5% if tethered to them and remain within 6 yalms [15 seconds])
- Brotherhood from MNKs (+5% [15 seconds])
- Rook Hypercharge from MCHs(+5% [10~30 seconds]) <-- doubt this one will be delayed 6 GCDs but could happen.
- Embolden from RDM(+10%[-2% every 4s, last 20s]) <-- not sure where this is going to be.
- Balance from AST... I wouldn't consider this one as most likely will be thrown as soon as the battle begins and be present for all the first 6 GCDs.

Long story short, outside of a static it really doesn't look very worth the effort...

[Sigmakan]

That's unfortunate that you lose a second due to potion. I'm fortunate enough to not lose any time. Lets hope its one of the improvements in 4.0.

I understand what you mean about losing 2 DoT tics, but in order to really determine if you lose those tics you'd have to see when the boss dies/jumps away. Once again, also depends on when raid buffs fall off. If doing SF first allows you to do another SF while some raid buffs are still active then you should certainly swap them. Swaping the SF and AE is certainly and option, depending on the fight. One "positive" about the battle changes is that we'll have a bit more agility to swap combo finishers.

I'll concede that at this point with what we know, it is probably best to do SF first.

Suiton > Spinning (empty)> Gust (pot) > SF (kas) > Spinning (jug) > Gust (TA) > AE (Raiton) > Spinning (DWD+Mug) > Gust (Dual) > AE (TCJ + Fuma + Raiton + Suiton)

If the double oGCD causes too much clipping, could move the mug to pre-TA, there's still a free oGCD slot.

I'll play around with it tonight to see the feasibility of this opener. If I can finish that AE with >2.75s left on TA then it should definitely be feasible. Even if the Raiton falls outside the TA window, its likely still worthwile to do TCJ during TA

[Laflama_Blanca]

I still feel like you're hurting yourselves with Suiton prior to Ten Chi Jin on these openers. Doing the math, I have my opener at 9970.9 potency over 31.56 seconds. Arkenne's comes in at 9196.4 and Sigmakan's comes in at 9361.5 over the same time frame. It's quite a large potency gap all to get trick out 15 seconds sooner.

[Arkenne]

I still feel like you're hurting yourselves with Suiton prior to Ten Chi Jin on these openers.

Hrmm there is one thing about your opener there, now that I re-check it...
You are using:
Raiton prepull < ok with this
20 seconds later Raiton again < alright?
Ten Chi Jin - Shu Rai Sui < this... is the issue

The tooltip for Ten Chi Jin specifies that it will reset your Ninjutsu back twice. This may imply that if the clock is going in the mudras it will refresh them back to 0 and that may count as the 1st reset. So you may not be able to go Raiton > Ten Chi Jin - ShuRaiSui but Raiton > TenChiJin - RaiSui at most :/

At the one shown video, the guy shows Ten Chi Jin in action only once while mudras are on cooldown, and fails it, never actually showing its full mechanic... Mr Happy does the same... and at the official ability showcase video the NIN actually waits 20 seconds from Raiton till using Ten Chi Jin at all :/

So this aspect which is key for this opener you suggest is yet in the dark...