PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[Bourne_Endeavor]

It's not about not liking casual players or players not following meta, it's about not liking party members who are inactive for 80% of the time and just stand there watching their team members do almost all the work. And the fact that this is only considered acceptable (by some) for healers, and those same players would not keep a tank or DD like that in their party.

This.

Everyone who calls out heal only healers applies that same standard to tanks and DPS. No one is ganging up healers. A Bard who refuses to sing when the healer needs MP is a bad Bard. A Black Mage who uses their level 50 rotation in level 60 content because "it's easier" is a bad Black Mage. Likewise, no one will call out a White Mage who does 500 DPS when you call pull a 1,000. It's exclusively the players (note: not job specific) who do the barest of minimums to get by who people take umbrage with. In regards to healers, this means literally standing still, not casting a single ability beyond Cure whenever the tank takes even the slightest damage. To offer an example, back when Hullbreaker was relevant, I queued on Dragoon and had a Warrior who never once dropped below 30k. He mitigated extremely well, used Bloodbath and Equilibrium on pulls for large self heals. The healer we got had so much downtime, he literally hopped around the map and even /wave to us during the first boss fight.

That is the healer people don't like. Not only wasn't he new, but had multiple jobs-- including other healers-- at 60. So, I'll ask. Is this a good healer; someone who spent more time jumping around the map and occasionally using emotes than he did healing?

[Taika]

except theres no rule set by SE on how to play this game , but some meta set up from someone whos thinking that the only way to play the game is his way :P

Meta is literally about how the jobs are played most effectively, and it's not based on nothing but how the developers have designed the game. Furthermore, the developers have full power to change the meta by adjusting the design, so when they're not doing that, they're in fact supporting the meta (and in fact, they've been enforcing the healer DPS meta along the way).

[Greedalox]

except theres no rule set by SE on how to play this game , but some meta set up from someone whos thinking that the only way to play the game is his way :P

Welcome to online gaming, where the community sets self imposed standards with the tools and limitations offered from the Devs. When Devs give you High DPS capabilities and low monster damage output, the community responds by DPSing.

It's not "someone" who made the meta, it's the community itself.

Of course like I said, you're always welcome to go against the grain per se, but the community is technically allowed to impose their meta on you in the form of vote kicking.

[KisaiTenshi]

(poorly drawn troll post)

If you've been a regular reader of the forums since V1.0 you'd know that this "Players make unreasonable demands of other players" all the time.

The argument is always a combination of:

a) Shut up it's my game, I paid for it, and I will troll you cause that's what I feel is worth 15$/mo.

b) Do what I say, or my boot gets shoved up your butt so fast.

c) Stop doing that, you are ruining my game

No "Let's work together to make this dungeon instance faster", no "could you not do X, it's making this harder than it needs to be"

For every "hurr hurr, WHM must DPS or kick" there is also a "stop spamming medica II" (where the healer casts medica II then promptly goes back to DPS'ing, and casts nothing else)

Nobody seems to care if the player is trying their best. It's easier to ask a player to stop doing something counter-productive, than it is to make them change their play style just for you. If you have a party where the healer thinks they are hot-**** and spending all their mana on DPS while the DPS are taking dirt naps, that is the impression "WHM must DPS" looks like to players who are playing WHM to be a healer, not a third DPS.

My play style with the WHM is to conserve mana, because the chances of getting a PUG of passable tank and two ranged DPS is rare. Most of the time one DPS is under geared, or ignores the mechanics, or a tank thinks they are also hot-**** and constantly taking 80% damage.

[Greedalox]

If you've been a regular reader of the forums since V1.0 you'd know that this "Players make unreasonable demands of other players" all the time.

Are you implying tossing a few DPS spells in bouts of downtime is unreasonable?

There's the issue guys. Can't win against a brick wall like that.

[KisaiTenshi]

That is the healer people don't like. Not only wasn't he new, but had multiple jobs-- including other healers-- at 60. So, I'll ask. Is this a good healer; someone who spent more time jumping around the map and occasionally using emotes than he did healing?

People responding in this thread and the countless other times this topic has been dredged up in other forums, act like this is the norm. It is not. It's the equivalent of the *chan/reddit troll who encourages someone to kill themselves and is then surprised when someone actually does, and the entire community gets blamed.

[Greedalox]

It is not. It's the equivalent of the *chan/reddit troll who encourages someone to kill themselves and is then surprised when someone actually does, and the entire community gets blamed.

You need to step back and get some real perspective on this. Getting booted from a group for not DPS'ing is NOT equivalent to goading suicide and then following through. You need to stop.

[Khemorex]

Meta is literally about how the jobs are played most effectively, and it's not based on nothing but how the developers have designed the game. Furthermore, the developers have full power to change the meta by adjusting the design, so when they're not doing that, they're in fact supporting the meta (and in fact, they've been enforcing the healer DPS meta along the way).

yes in savage mode ^^
edit : and only because people wanted first world kill instead of waiting to gear up the normal way ^^

[Taika]

The argument is always a combination of:

a) Shut up it's my game, I paid for it, and I will troll you cause that's what I feel is worth 15$/mo.

b) Do what I say, or my boot gets shoved up your butt so fast.

c) Stop doing that, you are ruining my game

No "Let's work together to make this dungeon instance faster", no "could you not do X, it's making this harder than it needs to be"

[...]

Nobody seems to care if the player is trying their best.

It seems you're reading these forums very selectively. I just posted this in another thread on the same topic, but it fits well here as well:

As for the rest of these posts, the point is that people want to see EFFORT. Nobody's expecting big dicl numbers, especially out of DF of all things. However, you're generally supposed to ASK for a sherpa instead of being lazy and trying to get a free carry.

There's also a thing called context. If you're brand new to an instance, nobody's gonna be mad at you for trying to feel it out. Even if you end up the worst at your role, most will forgive if it looks like you tried. I think that's all anyone's asking

That's the only thing reasonable people are asking, if during an entire fight you need to heal then no problem you don't have the time to do damage but if you only need to heal during 50% of the fight you should do something (not nothing) during the other 50%.

We are not expecting you to contribute the most damage output, nor ask you to abandon your primary role. When there is a wide time-frame in which no healing is needed, instead of reading about Toenail Fungus, or watching the latest episode of Log Horizon, or etc., why not throw in a few skills. . . at least some dots to help things along?

General rule of thumb: you don't have to be a pro MLG high DPS healer for people to be happy with your performance, so long as you have some awareness of when your party is taking damage and when you have downtime. You should learn your toolkit and find the skills which give you downtime (regen, aspects benefic, rouse), and at least weave in some sort of DPS just so you aren't idling, because it's the idling that people notice, not your damage numbers

When we are talking about dps on healer, we're not expecting everyone to do 1000 dps.
If every healer just use dots, the very least, it would be enough to stop yelling at those who "don't want to dps because blabla".

What people are asking for:

- Heal when healing is necessary. If your party is taking too much damage it is okay to not DPS.
- If you find yourself standing around, throw some dots on, cast a few damage skills.
- Use your time wisely. If you aren't comfortable with the dungeon no one is going to get on you, but if you can contribute please do.

What is being asked for is, in fact, making an effort and trying.

[Aramina]

No one is saying all healers are bad... so your comparison is completely inaccurate. If you aren't one of the healers that stands around picking his/her butt then STOP BEING OFFENDED since it is not being directed at you.