PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[Ayerinn]

Amazed by the amount of people who thinks do nothing for 12/15 minutes in a 15/20 minutes long dungeon isn't leeching and the point of the job ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sounds like SE needs to design dungeons around MORE healing needed then...or stop calling them healer roles and change the official role name to support dps because that is more fitting based on current player expectations of healers.

[Tharne]

Sounds like SE needs to design dungeons around MORE healing needed then...or stop calling them healer roles and change the official role name to support dps because that is more fitting based on current player expectations of healers.

Player expectations are set on having each individual in a group reaching as close as a 100% uptime during a fight as possible.
i.e : If the fight needs you to heal during 100% of the fight then that's great, you reached 100% uptime. But if the fight needs you to heal during 50% of the time then I expect you to use as close as the 50% uptime remaining to do something useful. Always Be Casting isn't only a saying for Casters, it just means that you should use every GCD windows at your disposal the best you can.

[Seoulstar]

Player expectations are set on having each individual in a group reaching as close as a 100% uptime during a fight as possible.
i.e : If the fight needs you to heal during 100% of the fight then that's great, you reached 100% uptime. But if the fight needs you to heal during 50% of the time then I expect you to use as close as the 50% uptime remaining to do something useful. Always Be Casting isn't only a saying for Casters, it just means that you should use every GCD windows at your disposal the best you can.

And that is where the problem arises~ People are expecting way too much in a game with millions of others. To think that everyone will play exactly how you vision is absurd. No amount of arguing on the forums will change that. I am still wondering why is this going on. It's just a never ending circle of people bickering at each other.

[SlogDog]

Sounds like SE needs to design dungeons around MORE healing needed then...or stop calling them healer roles and change the official role name to support dps because that is more fitting based on current player expectations of healers.

Gods that would be a disaster... I've seen these "pure healers" in action, first heal check everyone is dead. I think people need to forget this narrative they try to push about how they are better healers cause they just focus on healing. The real story is they are pure healers cause they have the reaction time of a sloth and want an easy ride.

(I never thought i'd have to teach someone how to precast a heal til one joined my FC...)

[Faliandra]

Gods that would be a disaster... I've seen these "pure healers" in action, first heal check everyone is dead. I think people need to forget this narrative they try to push about how they are better healers cause they just focus on healing. The real story is they are pure healers cause they have the reaction time of a sloth and want an easy ride.

(I never thought i'd have to teach someone how to precast a heal til one joined my FC...)

I wish I could disagree but this is also exactly the experience I usually get to make. Pure Healers being slow af.......This is actually the reason why I wish they'd make healing checks harder so the ones hoping for the easy ride
would swap to something else.

I also dont ever see people precasting heals in casual content tbh. Wonder why.

[Faliandra]

What is this MP problem people talk about?

I dps mercilessly on my WHM until im almost OOM.

Does it matter? Nah, if the dps is decent,the mobs will be dead by then and I'll have enough time to recover some MP until the next pull.
I also start using my MP recovery spells BEFORE I run dry completely with the aim of trying to use it as much as possible.

So basically I spam Holy and use Aero III/Assize --> massive AoE damage -> mobs are initially stunned --> no heals needed --> mobs die faster, less heals needed.

Tank needs healing? Did you know some healing skills cost 0 MP?

WHM: Tetragrammaton /Benediction/Asylum/ Cure II if it procs

AST: Essential Dignity/Collective Unconcious (on top of this, ASTs can give themselves Ewers and extend their lumniferous aether by an additional 10 secs)

SCH: Lustrate/Indomitability/ a fairy pet who has an endless mp pool (+ Rouse to buff the fairy is 0mp too)


Instead of arguing about the issues endlessly, it would help if people would start using their resources in a useful way.
Also, get rid of the mindset that every healthbar has to be at 100% at any given time.


I know its a crazy idea but...how about you just try it instead of just completely refusing it all the time?

[bounddreamer]

We had some pure healers yesterday in A12N. The party wiped twice at the end of the fight. Both healers had nearly full mp bars. Once the tanks (who were mitigating) went down, the party slowly collapsed until we wiped. Twice.

Pure healers =/= good healers.

[Taika]

We had some pure healers yesterday in A12N. The party wiped twice at the end of the fight. Both healers had nearly full mp bars. Once the tanks (who were mitigating) went down, the party slowly collapsed until we wiped. Twice.

Pure healers =/= good healers.

Yup, my last experience in that fight was with a no-DPS AST, so I first let her solo heal --> couldn't keep tanks up in add phase... In the end, I ended up doing DPS and healing more than this AST on my WHM.

Based on my experiences, often it seems the healers who don't DPS don't know how to use their heals and buffs correctly, and because of that their healing is ineffective (spamming cure II when Divine Seal regen would do, using Medica right after Medica II to cancel the usefulness of the regen, not shielding tanks for tank busters, not utilising Virus, Disable and Eye for an Eye etc.) and they're running out of MP. Learning to DPS as a healer requires one to know when and how much damage is coming and also how to use your abilities as effectively as possible to create room for that DPS.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Yup, my last experience in that fight was with a no-DPS AST, so I first let her solo heal --> couldn't keep tanks up in add phase... In the end, I ended up doing DPS and healing more than this AST on my WHM.

Based on my experiences, often it seems the healers who don't DPS don't know how to use their heals and buffs correctly, and because of that their healing is ineffective (spamming cure II when Divine Seal regen would do, using Medica right after Medica II to cancel the usefulness of the regen, not shielding tanks for tank busters, not utilising Virus, Disable and Eye for an Eye etc.) and they're running out of MP. Learning to DPS as a healer requires one to know when and how much damage is coming and also how to use your abilities as effectively as possible to create room for that DPS.

I had the exact same problem. The WHM even yelled at me for "thinking this is PvP with her PvP gear on."The DRK eventually chimed in when said WHM complained about running out of mana... before the add phase even started. Found out the supposed good healer who opted to lecture me on stance dancing despite the fact they never turned on Cleric did little more than spam CureII/Medica II for practically everything.

The majority of my bad experiences with co-healers have been ones where I let them heal and they cannot adapt to the sudden responsibility yet still won't DPS if I decide to take over healing for them. Most hybrid healers who want to share responsibilities between us have been a dream to work with.

[Belhi]

Yup, my last experience in that fight was with a no-DPS AST, so I first let her solo heal --> couldn't keep tanks up in add phase... In the end, I ended up doing DPS and healing more than this AST on my WHM.

Based on my experiences, often it seems the healers who don't DPS don't know how to use their heals and buffs correctly, and because of that their healing is ineffective (spamming cure II when Divine Seal regen would do, using Medica right after Medica II to cancel the usefulness of the regen, not shielding tanks for tank busters, not utilising Virus, Disable and Eye for an Eye etc.) and they're running out of MP. Learning to DPS as a healer requires one to know when and how much damage is coming and also how to use your abilities as effectively as possible to create room for that DPS.

It doesn't really any more. DPS as a healer now just involves spending a GCD on a damage spell instead of a healing spell. Honestly the difference between a decent healer and a great healer is somewhat reduced with sadly the ceiling coming down rather than the floor coming up.

Honestly I have seen bad healers who pure heal and bad healers who dps. I haven't noticed a distinct correlation. Bad healers are bad healers. Often dps who try healing have a bad habit of tunnel visioning on the enemies while dpsing and not paying enough attention to their party. That is more often an issue I run into with bad healers. Healers too focused on dpsing and letting a tank die in a large pull or not switching to heals before people start dropping dead from AoE damage.

I actually wonder if the changes are going to make more people want to play healers. Honestly this is the first time since I started playing I have seriously considered changing to another role. SE doesn't seem to be actually fixing the issues with healer gameplay and the dps aspect has had any skill requirement removed from it and I think it will be a miracle if the same balance issues that happened in HW don't end up happening again due to the flaws in the healer meta.