PSA - Cleric Stance and vote kicking

[KisaiTenshi]

wha...?

I use Hi-Elixirs all the time, NQ ones. People sell those on the MB all the time for like 1-100g a piece...because they drop everywhere,all the time.

Bottomless purse? Faaaaaar from it.
Time to craft? Nope.

With the cooldown attached to using potions,its also HARDLY spammable.

You try way too hard to prove irrelevant things.

Pot Spamming is a technique used to compensate for inadequate gear in other games, nothing more. In this game it has a cooldown attached to it that makes spamming items counter productive in combat. The only time I even needed pots in this game was right at launch. After that, the buffs in the game associated with pots just don't last long enough to be worth giving them inventory space. Other consumables like food at least last 30 minutes.

The trend I'm seeing is that people are trying to hard to prove that Healers play bad by not DPS'ing, when the evidence appears to be the opposite, Healers of "so much downtime" seems to be because the healer is playing bad on purpose and the tank suffers for it from all the overhealing and enmity generation coming from the healer's inability to pick the right healing spell and instead spamming Medica II or the highest single-target heal as the only heal. You aren't speeding up the run any by DPS'ing as a healer, so why risk wiping the party? It's counter-productive.

The only time I'm hitting a near-OOM point in any duty is when I have to carry a bad or poorly equipped tank, or constantly having to revive DPS taking dirt naps who aren't trying to avoid AOE's. The one I have on video is where a tank broke all their gear by the time it got to Midgardsormr in Keeper of the Lake and had to finish on DPS gear. Or maybe that time where I had to use the Summoner's pet as the tank for one boss because the tank dc'd. All of this is adapting to the situation even if it takes longer instead of "abandoning" or "kicking" because the situation isn't within the parameters you want.

This is the thing that people on the forum refuse to acknowledge, that no players are perfect. If Cleric Stance changes to be useless, and it becomes easier to fire off Aero/Stone that still does not make it something they can just throw in a rotation of healing. Disposing of Cleric Stance at best just removes one of the hurdles needed to play single player quests that otherwise the cooldown between switching stances usually ends up with you taking two hits from a mob, and all the accidental "oops still in CS" that no longer gives the "dps healer" an excuse to exclusively DPS and let the other healer carry the party. I don't expect anything to change really, healers will not be punished by not DPS'ing, and will actually be able to use spells like Assize, Aero III and Holy for where the AOE effect is useful, who cares about the DPS value.

I've never seen a legitmate example of where a healer has been "required" to DPS to get through content. At best, the healer's DPS only makes up for a shortcoming by the DPS in the Savage versions of Raids. They (the developers) have made it clear that all of these things can be cleared using the roles required for the raid or duty, and thus making unreasonable demands of healers or tanks to contribute DPS when it's not even required, is again, is asking to be carried. Big deal if a WHM DPS shaves 10 seconds or 2 minutes off a duty, there is no reward for doing so, and you're not going getting any farther ahead in anything by doing so.

So when you use PUG's, and they aren't playing the way you want, find a static that does. Clearly from the uncivil comments by some people in this thread alone, there are enough arrogant "deeps or get kicked" people that they can all form their own statics and not have to worry about people wanting to have fun.

[Anzaman]

You aren't speeding up the run any by DPS'ing as a healer, so why risk wiping the party? It's counter-productive.

They tend to make Ex dungeons so easy that it's almost impossible to wipe in them, I was healing and DPS'ing in Baelsar's Wall at i230 (min. ilevel) without issues.

Big deal if a WHM DPS shaves 10 seconds or 2 minutes off a duty, there is no reward for doing so, and you're not going getting any farther ahead in anything by doing so.

Even if you shave 2 minutes off from each run, it's going to be 730 minutes "shaved" from daily Ex runs each year. That means you have over 12 hours free time to be spent doing something else.

And I'd say that two minutes out of timer is quite low DPS for healer - they can do quite high amount of damage.

[DaikiKiyoshi]

You aren't speeding up the run any by DPS'ing as a healer, so why risk wiping the party? It's counter-productive.

Lol nope. You completely lost me (and whatever credibility you may have had left on the subject) at this part. Now you are just spouting lies. Please find somewhere else to spread your misinformation.

[akaneakki]

...

I think you need to stop saying nobody is blaming healers or DPS. DPS gets blamed most of the time, since the game is based on damage culcuation and time to beat the said content. Yes I'm aware you can take very long time in roulettes and still beat it in time, but honestly that's stupid excuse, consider that it's the very same dungeons for months, and I highly doubt they will be much as fun for most people, spamming same shit everyday. When it comes to farming, you FARM! Meaning you want to get in and out fast.

[Fyce]

-Snip-

The bottom line of the point is that as a player, you should constantly be pressing buttons. No matter what role you play.
When it comes to healers, just like what they teach you in the Hall of the Novice, once you've pressed enough healing buttons, then press the ones that do damage, until you have to press the healing ones again.

That's all. That's all there is to it.
Be always active.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The trend I'm seeing is that people are trying to hard to prove that Healers play bad by not DPS'ing, when the evidence appears to be the opposite, Healers of "so much downtime" seems to be because the healer is playing bad on purpose and the tank suffers for it from all the overhealing and enmity generation coming from the healer's inability to pick the right healing spell and instead spamming Medica II or the highest single-target heal as the only heal. You aren't speeding up the run any by DPS'ing as a healer, so why risk wiping the party? It's counter-productive.

Just stop.

You are speaking about mechanics and calculations you clearly don't understand. The only way healers rip aggro from tanks is by spamming their high burst heals, which no good healer does because it isn't mana efficient. Likewise, healers who only heal are far more prone to overhealing than their DPS centric counterpart. The latter knows when to dedicate a cast to their target or allow HoTs to tick them up. Leaving the tank's HP to plummet is good healing. Essential Dignity can go from a 400 potency heal to 1,000. On a Warrior Holmganging a buster or simply dipping below the 15k mark, ED becomes a 10k+ heal on a 45s cooldown. That is phenomenal.

[KisaiTenshi]

Just stop.

You are speaking about mechanics and calculations you clearly don't understand.

No. I will not "stop", obviously I've hit a nerve, and this isn't reddit where you can bury it. I will not be bullied.

Everyone can play the game exactly the way they want to, if the way they play is counter-productive, or annoying, you are free to kick them from a party for harassment. A tank or healer that doesn't DPS is not counter-productive.

But people keep sprouting nonsense about the role of the healer in a party having to mandatory DPS. It has not, not has it ever been that way. Your tank has one job, keep enmity, regardless of how much DPS they put out. Your DPS has one job, keep delivering damage. Your Healer has one defined job "heal damage", unless your tank has run away, there is always one target that needs healing. If the tank is spamming healing pots or their own healing skills for no reason, that is counter-productive to drawing enmity.

The developers gave every role some kind of healing and enmity reduction mechanic so that they can play the solo content. That is what it was designed for. The developers did not feel they had to lock out skills that people didn't need in the dungeons in a balanced party. Allowing those things to be used allows for emergent gameplay, which is often encouraged. But no, some of you just want to scream that players aren't following the exact strategy MrHappy or some wiki suggested and instead maybe figure out what works for them.

Why do you really think I'm somehow NOT always pressing buttons? if you are playing the game correctly, you shouldn't have any more than 20% downtime, and your tank shouldn't have to work twice as hard. The #1 complaint from tanks is healers casting Medica II or Regen on completely healed targets.

If Square Enix wants to adjust the mechanics to be more interesting, double the enmity generation from overhealing and non-DoT DPS from healers, that way playing poorly actually has consequences. Let the DPS care about the single targets, if you have time to DPS as a healer it should be for the AOE, not single stones that won't even be noticed.

[Greedalox]

No. I will not "stop", obviously I've hit a nerve, and this isn't reddit where you can bury it. I will not be bullied.

People aren't bullying you. Telling you you're wrong isn't bullying. Telling you that you're spreading not only terrible information- but wrong information isn't bullying. You're trying to make claims that anybody with common sense would disagree with.

Damage+ Team Alive > No Damage+ Team Alive

You claiming that you have an 80% up time as pure healer where everyone else has around 10-20~% shows that you're doing something very ineffectively, but y'know what you are right about? Your right to do things poorly. If it's honestly just a pure preference that you refuse to DPS, then honestly who really cares? People do take issue with falsities. You're either being purposefully ignorant or insincere.

PS The only time I've seen a healer pull threat in the past year was from Cure III spam in raids.

[Fyce]

But people keep sprouting nonsense about the role of the healer in a party having to mandatory DPS. It has not, not has it ever been that way.

Not holding the door open for that old lady who is coming behind you isn't mandatory either.