Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[Kethic]

There's a comment in an interview about SAM having more dps then other jobs but to make up the difference it lacks utility. ... The problem is, no one wants extra healing.

I think they're being even more literal than that. I think WHM will have drastically more dps to make up the difference, not more heals.

I'll be leveling WHM first so I can give feedback on it since apparently our opinions are worthless unless we CALM DOWN and get it to 70. ... WHM still has their paper crown for "best in dungeon DPS" right?!

Honestly, I expect the first month as WHM to be fantastic. Dungeon King, Progression Primals, Progression Raid. The question will be how it settles in late July, early August.

[VanilleFang]

Thank you. You understand. If someone wants utility in their kit, there are classes that now carry plenty of it. However , not all classes have utility, and not all classes should. What's the point of having different classes if they all are the same?

But it also makes WHM near useless in raid content compared to other healers. SCH and AST can heal just fine, but bring utility. SAM will probably be fine if it does a good amount of DPS because utility isn't that important for a DPS to have (except for slash debuff and such).

Maybe the extra DPS from WHM will be useful in raids... I hope so, but we'll see.

[Niroken]

Well, AST was crummy to play on release in 3.0. And then look what happened to them. Just gotta wait a year to feel good again, by which point they'll have over-tuned us so we become the new Gods of Healing! Or we'll be like BRD and have to wait until 5.0 to get a kit change that better reflects what people like about the class.

We'll be waiting until 5.0. To address the largest concerns it's going to take more the number tweeks especially considering the only thing that was officially addressed is the concerns about raid ability (To which he suggests trying it out in raid before saying anything, so basically if we do get number adjustments, it'll be closer to savage).

I don't think I've seen Yoshi-P comment on the loss of skills compared to other healing classes or any comments on the new UI and skills bring lackluster.

[Slaine_Fray]

I think they're being even more literal than that. I think WHM will have drastically more dps to make up the difference, not more heals.

In terms of DPS...

That's the other problem... Players won't accept a WHM doing the damage of an equivalent utility from another healer, for some strange reason it has to be a utility buff for the raid.

[Hagen]

They needed to make all healing skill grant Confession, Lillies to have PVP level of effect and make Benison have a Haste effect as extra if you use more Lillies. It seems so wasteful to use Benison at 3 Lillies and not get a different effect.

[Kethic]

In terms of DPS...

That's the other problem... Players won't accept a WHM doing the damage of an equivalent utility from another healer, for some strange reason it has to be a utility buff for the raid.

If it works out the same way Warrior did, with regards to hybrid role output, people may come around. We'll see.

[BroodingFicus]

Thank you. You understand. If someone wants utility in their kit, there are classes that now carry plenty of it. However , not all classes have utility, and not all classes should. What's the point of having different classes if they all are the same?

The thing is, no, all classes should not be the same. They shouldn't give WHM some party dps boost or some other healers utility to bring them current. They need to give them their own identity, which has been a complaint since HW dropped. The issue is, Yoshi and Square seem hell bent on making that identity 'pure healer' and that is not healthy for the job or the game. You can't make content where so much healing is required that only a WHM can manage because that would obviously be ridiculous. Every healer has to be able to heal all content to a reasonable degree so bigger heal numbers is superfluous. I'd also argue that if they are indeed going for a 'pure healer' fantasy they have missed the mark. WHM isn't significantly better at healing than either of the other two and all our new healing abilities are gated behind bad mechanics and RNG.

I'm still an advocate for them making WHM the life saver of the healers. For example rescue should have been a WHM ability along with things like a self raise or some kind of preemptive auto raise on a party member you know is about to go down, effects added to asylum like a ticking dot, an aoe ensuna etc. There were a ton of things they could have done to make WHM's feel like the healers healer. Instead they gave us almost nothing new aside from mp management (which we arguably already had before they took it away) and cooldown reduction that is clunky and better off ignored. If you want to make WHM the healer that just heals, make us able to carry the weight of others on our backs and let the other healers worry about boosting damage, defense etc. I'd be fine with that so long as I didn't feel like I was coming into SB playing HW WHM all over again only with less moves and more RNG.

I think the reason people focus on utility for raid spots is because that is what has always been in demand. Personally, I'd be a bit miffed if my 'place' as WHM became the healer that does DPS. While I do add dps when I can, I don't play a healer to sit there and spam stone and occasionally become a holy factory. If they wanted to do that, again, they need to rework things. Connect our dps to our healing somehow so there is some actual involvement and give us interesting ways to dps. Heck, at least make my dps moves pretty to look at if nothing else. If I see one more brown and yellow stone spell with a slightly different shape, I'm going to throw things. Since I'm a WHM it'll probably be another freakin' stone.

[Metsonm]

In terms of DPS...

That's the other problem... Players won't accept a WHM doing the damage of an equivalent utility from another healer, for some strange reason it has to be a utility buff for the raid.

We'd love to do as much damage as an AST plus a balanced raid all on our own, but we accept that that is such a disparity that it would be crazy numbers.

[Slaine_Fray]

We'd love to do as much damage as an AST plus a balanced raid all on our own, but we accept that that is such a disparity that it would be crazy numbers.

Full circle utility issue :/

[Keridwyn]

At this point I think we have given all the constructive feedback possible without any solid numbers. We are making the same suggestions, returning to the same talking points, and getting the same vague responses. We're only a couple hours away from seeing how it plays and how it feels. Once we get hands on with our class we can revisit our issues with better feedback.

I'm not happy with how things shaped up but I am optimistic about they might pan out.