Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

[OcieKo]

If we ask what makes White Mage, then we're looking for powerful white magic spells and regen effects, something that's been core to the White Mage experience from Day 1. I absolutely agree that Lillies as they are currently don't fit that fantasy very well.

And here I believed WHM was about always having a healing based solution to any incoming damage problem, no matter how random or out of place it felt. Kind of like how PLD was about having a damage reducing defense solution to any incoming damage problem, which with magic blocking, pretty much fullfills that. WHM has very natural and soothing element types, PLD has a shield and holy spells. I dont see WHMs cursing things into darkness or PLDs getting a beheading finisher yet, so far feels like what one wants to do with them so far.

Can someone explain to me why the trend seems to be WHMs saying we hate having to use GCD skills, but our job is based on GCD skills, and we want our OGCDs more, as long as we dont have to use GCD skills our job is based on?
Honestly, I dont see a problem with Cure III, Medica I, and Medica II (initial heal only) have the same lily/confession proc rate as Cure I as long as the max amount per cast was capped beneath possible targets, i.e. one Lily per cast 20% chance per target (honestly chance would probably have to be 10% for Medicas to be below the target count threshold in full parties). And maybe up to 2-3 confession stacks on an equal number affected party members (basically you could get 1 stack on 2-3 people per cast, a chance on all 8 would be rediculously broken, in which case Plenary Indulgence's CD would have to be lengthened).

Also with all the bad press Repose gets for being kept in these toolkit updates, I get the feeling its value may be going up in the 4.X series. Why? Because DMG was removed from CCs in general and CC was made more readily available to everyone, which makes me wonder if this was a move so CC could actually be put into boss encounters, which currently is hard to do because SOOO many people blow em on CD just for the DMG. Who doesn't remember mobs/bosses that could be stunned or silenced out of me hs being CC immune by the time the mechs started casting? If you said you don't remember this, you probably have never done content without crazy phase pushing being the norm.

[Cynfael]

And here I believed WHM was about always having a healing based solution to any incoming damage problem, no matter how random or out of place it felt. Kind of like how PLD was about having a damage reducing defense solution to any incoming damage problem, which with magic blocking, pretty much fullfills that. WHM has very natural and soothing element types, PLD has a shield and holy spells. I dont see WHMs cursing things into darkness or PLDs getting a beheading finisher yet, so far feels like what one wants to do with them so far.

WHM's arguable problem isn't that its actions don't fit the Job; it's that the previously unique function and feel of the Job have been steadily eroded since 2.x, and the first info on 4.0 doesn't do much to reassure players that WHM will be taking steps towards reclaiming a more defined identity among the healers.

...and it doesn't help that the Lily system as presented thus far is utterly lackluster.

[OcieKo]

WHM's arguable problem isn't that its actions don't fit the Job; it's that the previously unique function and feel of the Job have been steadily eroded since 2.x, and the first info on 4.0 doesn't do much to reassure players that WHM will be taking steps towards reclaiming a more defined identity among the healers.

...and it doesn't help that the Lily system as presented thus far is utterly lackluster.

The speed of building it somewhat problematic, the benefit gained not so much. I keep seeing this back and forth if, saving our CDs when their useful and always wanting 3 lilies to use with it. If your not spamming your OGCDs back to back and timing them to mechanics, your not using all the CDs too close in time to each other. The only thing I'm seeing thats consistent somewhat, is you want little to no control over the building of said lilies, you just want it to build up quickly with no deliberate action taken (argument for regen ticks over casts) at this point your basically asking for NINs Ninki gauge that builds up on auto-attacks (maybe NINs will like Arrow as much as I do now). I dont see the downside of having your CD readily available sooner, or how healing people causing your tools to become available more often counters the thematic of what a WHM is.

To be honest, the mechanic could be anything thematically, but if people don't think the WHM will offer equal competition to AST & SCH raid utility, there would be the same outrage. How do I know this? Because there was no outrage at the beginning of 3.0 when AST was introduced with a card mechanic, SCH had a pet mechanic and WHM had no class mechanic at all to play with. People didn't care about that. They got angry when the new Meta rolled in after AST got loaded down with buffs and WHM dropped to third place.

Truth. Can't even say I'm happy with what's being done to ASTs current kit. Can't even believe I'll ever play with the #s we saw, and from what it seems one of our 3 big new things is a 3rd round of RNG albiet the best odds we have in our RNG at 50% but still RNG (Spread/Draw is 1/6, Royal Road is 1/3, Lord & Lady is 1/2). I think "Star Bomb" (dont kid youselves you call it this too) looks pretty and will probably be our hardest hitting spell even after its inevitable pre-release potency reductions, not the OMG TOO OP mess it is now. Tho my sig tells you my biggest complaint on ASTs less than finalized info rumormill.

[Levy9]

I'm with you there.

I enjoy a good number crunch, but at the end of the day, the primary consideration is fun. Naturally the Job has to be effective since players generally don't find unreasonable struggle and failure to be fun, but I think the negative sentiment surrounding Lilies and Confession stacks would be less intense if they were perceived as remotely entertaining or as making WHM more unique.

To be honest, the mechanic could be anything thematically, but if people don't think the WHM will offer equal competition to AST & SCH raid utility, there would be the same outrage. How do I know this? Because there was no outrage at the beginning of 3.0 when AST was introduced with a card mechanic, SCH had a pet mechanic and WHM had no class mechanic at all to play with. People didn't care about that. They got angry when the new Meta rolled in after AST got loaded down with buffs and WHM dropped to third place.

If this is about fun, 4.0 WHM beats 3.0 and 2.0 by default of having a themed class mechanic to manage where there was simply nothing to engage with before. People literally complained less when SE gave them nothing in this field. It's not about fun or the theme. It's about that deeps utility, son! :P If WHM got Chain Strategem and a Presence of Mind trait that applied it to the raid, I'd wager there would be no outrage. The majority would easily accept the lilies from the media tour if they got some utility with their basic spells and traits.

[Cynfael]

To be honest, the mechanic could be anything thematically, but if people don't think the WHM will offer equal competition to AST & SCH raid utility, there would be the same outrage. How do I know this? Because there was no outrage at the beginning of 3.0 when AST was introduced with a card mechanic, SCH had a pet mechanic and WHM had no class mechanic at all to play with. People didn't care about that. They got angry when the new Meta rolled in after AST got loaded down with buffs and WHM dropped to third place.

Lilies are mechanically unappealing based on what we know thus far. I get tired of repeating it, so I didn't bother to do so explicitly in that reply. However, they also happen to be un-fun.

WHMs didn't complain strongly at 3.0 launch because Assize, Asylum, and Tetra were all very effective, with the first two having some unique functionality.

The speed of building it somewhat problematic, the benefit gained not so much. I keep seeing this back and forth if, saving our CDs when their useful and always wanting 3 lilies to use with it. If your not spamming your OGCDs back to back and timing them to mechanics, your not using all the CDs too close in time to each other. The only thing I'm seeing thats consistent somewhat, is you want little to no control over the building of said lilies, you just want it to build up quickly with no deliberate action taken (argument for regen ticks over casts) at this point your basically asking for NINs Ninki gauge that builds up on auto-attacks (maybe NINs will like Arrow as much as I do now). I dont see the downside of having your CD readily available sooner, or how healing people causing your tools to become available more often counters the thematic of what a WHM is.

One of the issues with Lilies, aside from how they are accumulated and aside from the fact that their primary benefit is a sort of Spear card effect for specific skills, is that using any of the affected abilities blows the entire stack regardless of how many Lilies you have stored. This seems to be the opposite of intuitive or efficient and makes it very probable that you go through an entire fight reaping minimal or no benefit from the whole mechanic.

I suppose with Cure II having a 100% Lily proc, you could deliberately stack 3 of them before you know one of your key CDs is about to be up, but even at best it still encourages a potentially wasteful and counterintuitive style of play for a possibly marginal benefit. Now, as we've heard regarding PvP changes, there is potential to make it worthwhile; all of the speculation here is based purely on what we've seen and since heard following the media release.

[Fawkes]

If this is about fun, 4.0 WHM beats 3.0 and 2.0 by default of having a themed class mechanic to manage where there was simply nothing to engage with before. People literally complained less when SE gave them nothing in this field. It's not about fun or the theme.

I think 3.0 wins in the fun category. Going back to level 50 content is painful because I lose things like assize and tetragrammaton that had a positive impact on my playstyle. Nothing about the apparent cure spam of 4.0 sounds like fun.

[Levy9]

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/

^ New Dev blog on WHM PvP. As someone who prefers PvP to Raiding as an MMO endgame activity, I can say that a 50% oGCD reduction would theoretically be really strong in that environment. In PvP, sharp damage spikes are frequent, not scripted and are generally single target. Healing is more reactive and clutch here. You don't always know when the burst is coming. It looks like basic AoE healing won't be available for healers altogether. An oGCD and Adrenaline Rush look to be the only options. Makes me wonder what the other healers got as their nine class actions and whether the AST card abilities will be consolidated into a combo button somehow. Also, no more shroud on top of Mana Draw in PvP. Mana draw only, so Assize may be more valuable here.

On a side note, one of the reasons why my subscriptions were so sporadic was the lack of attention given to PvP as an endgame choice in ffxiv, so kudos to SE for finally giving PvP it's due.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

If we ask what makes White Mage, then we're looking for powerful white magic spells and regen effects, something that's been core to the White Mage experience from Day 1. I absolutely agree that Lillies as they are currently don't fit that fantasy very well.

100% agree with you, and I think a lot of us in this thread feels the same.
CD reduction, in itself, is a decent mechanic. But it's nothing defining at all. We were looking for the lily system to give us a sense of identity as well as help us catch up to the other healers in raid synergy.

These changes did... neither of these.

It's really strange because SE specifically said they wanted to better realize the role of a pure healer. None of these changes even attempt to capture this vision.

[DreamWeaver]

Posting my sentiment I wrote for another topic :

IMO, the first step for healer BALANCE in general, is to remove ALL "utilities" that buffs party damage, Balance/Arrow/Chain Strategem all gotta go.

This is an unhealthy "meta" where the value of a healer is how often they can stroke the DPS's shaft the most. I mean seriously, is that truly what healers are to you? Be the Balance-female dog of the party?

Our utilities should be about boosting the survivability of the party, stuff like CU, DT those are great, and I hope we'll see more skills like those instead of more "press this button to stroke your DPS shaft even harder".

[javid]

How does level 50 content have anything to do with 3.0 or 4.0 WHM? They're the same as far as any of the 52-60 skills are concerned. WHM isn't losing any tool in 4.0 that makes it any less than it already is, and gets access to so much more, no matter what it ends up being. 4.0 wins by default in that vein.

There's also one other thing I want to reiterate to this thread which has been lost on many people here falsely claiming that Yoshi wants healers to DPS or something. From a media tour interview:


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...NwqZTwPUw/edit

That Yoshi P quote made me cry ..... but in honesty I knew deep down inside the game was tune, even bk in gordias, to recieve 0 dps from healers. DPS'ing healer was a "bonus" by design, instead of a requirement (like us CORE demand). /sigh

If anything I hope we can re-hide that Yoshi P quote....and continue to convince them masses that DPSing HEALER IS A MUST .

Posting my sentiment I wrote for another topic :

IMO, the first step for healer BALANCE in general, is to remove ALL "utilities" that buffs party damage, Balance/Arrow/Chain Strategem all gotta go.

This is an unhealthy "meta" where the value of a healer is how often they can stroke the DPS's shaft the most. I mean seriously, is that truly what healers are to you? Be the Balance-female dog of the party?

Our utilities should be about boosting the survivability of the party, stuff like CU, DT those are great, and I hope we'll see more skills like those instead of more "press this button to stroke your DPS shaft even harder".

To the second guy's point..... what you're describing (by removing healer provided dps utilities) is what Yoshi P calls "PURE HEALER"....and most these ppl hate the concept of a "pure healer" so.... if they could down vote a post, you'd be at -32?