Thread: Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

Oh, this thread is back.

[obligatory witty comment about a necro before I reply]

Originally Posted by Duraeus_Entenu

I'm a Pure White Mage. Have been since I started this game (and this is my first MMORPG). I can't act like I don't think there's anything missing from the lineup, but at the same time, there hasn't been an RPG where being the healer was ever easy. Healers have the hardest job of them all, precisely because they have to focus on keeping their comrades alive.

This game is not centered around healers being a “pure” healer—meaning that healers are not expected by the community to stand around and do nothing but heal—they are expected to contribute to damage in most types of content, with very few exceptions (e.g., being new to a fight).

Heals are extremely overpowered right now and healers have a ton of healing tools at their disposal, so healers that do not contribute to damage find themselves standing around 80% of the time in most content. Which means you are only active and participating in the content 20% of the time. No other role is allowed to be active 20% of the time, so it is unfair to the party you are in for you to perform in this way. Especially as you get to the higher levels (I see that you are listed as only being level 43; I’m not sure if this is accurate or not, but that is what your forum profile says)—you get more heals and more tools that makes healing even easier to do.

The other healing classes, like Astrologer and Scholar, and certain other jobs that also have healing ability, can't focus on team survivability, because that's not their prime role.

Uh, Astrologian and Scholar are also healers and can output just as much HPS as White Mage can. This last tier, AST actually overtook WHM as the prog healer because it could match WHM in HPS and contribute to raid damage with card buffs—Earthly Star blows anything WHM has out of the water, as does Essential Dignity.

I think you’re misinformed if you think AST/SCH cannot heal as much as a WHM can. WHM’s burst healing is not a very good utility in this game because it’s generally not even needed.

The healer, the White Mage, is a pure job, in action as well as name. Survival as a lone White Mage; it's hard. I spent the first chunk of my gameplay on my own, no parties or groups or Free Companies, so I suffered, and died, a lot. A LOT. -.-' And I was told by many I should just cross-job, even a little, just to get the knowledge. But in my eyes, and based on my original intentions for my game career, I only wanted to be the one to patch people up and keep them going, because someone has to. I don't mean to get dramatic about this, like it's real life, but even in video games, the healer is the "bones" of the community (military speak). Without them and their specialization, it's not possible.

I personally think you need more experience on the other healers and perhaps other roles to get a better understanding of how this game functions. You seem to have a lot of misconceptions—and more experience will help rectify that. You’ve barely started this game—if you are indeed level 43—so it’s hard for you to really make objective judgements on the healing requirements in this game, if this is the case.

I remember seeing someone mention that as long as players make fewer mistakes, other jobs compensate for the lack of a pure healer. That may be true, but there are lots of ways to make mistakes, and lots of scenarios where mistakes get easier to make, even for seasoned players. Which is precisely why I prefer to be Pure White Mage. My job is easy: stand to the side, watch everyone, and keep them green. Put a protective spell and a helpful effect on them now and again, and generally just do everything in my power to make their job a little less stressful. My job is simple and focused. Willpower and wit is often what I've seen get me through my time in the game. Not just this game, but any game with a healing option. (I once played FF 1 with nothing but a team of White Mages; definitely possible). Anything else that helps that (like pumping up my Hand and Field classes to make items/equipment that helps keep players alive) is a plus.

You don’t need a Pure Healer in this game because healing is so overpowered and outgoing damage is so weak and scripted that it’s just not necessary. At the higher levels, healers can heal content with mostly off-global heals like Earthly Star (AST) or Indomitability (SCH). In the hardest fights in the game, healers have maybe 50% healing casts if they are playing super safe/overhealing. So there is no need for a “pure” healing job in the sense of standing around and doing nothing but healing. This game just doesn’t call for that type of play like other MMOs may (I hear WoW healers generally spend more time healing, either because of less potent heals or more outgoing damage—I’m not sure because I don’t play WoW; just going off of what I have heard).

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Uh, Astrologian and Scholar are also healers and can output just as much HPS as White Mage can.

I'm not going to speak for AST, but at least for SCH it has a lower HPS than WHM and that's a fact. The fact that WHM's extra HPS is not needed and SCH can get through all the savage tier raids having lower HPS, doesn't mean the WHM HPS advantage doesn't exist. Even if that advantage is completely useless. Also a food for thought, they brought up SCH's lack of HPS on the live-letter and said they would fix it. Even though I've never seen a fellow SCH complain about having lower HPS. WTF Square?

I agree with everything you've said, so the reason I quoted one sentence was to nitpick a single point. Even if that point isn't very important to the overall picture.

Originally Posted by Ftail

I'm not going to speak for AST, but at least for SCH it has a lower HPS than WHM and that's a fact. The fact that WHM's extra HPS is not needed and SCH can get through all the savage tier raids having lower HPS, doesn't mean the WHM HPS advantage doesn't exist. Even if that advantage is completely useless. Also a food for thought, they brought up SCH's lack of HPS on the live-letter and said they would fix it. Even though I've never seen a fellow SCH complain about having lower HPS. WTF Square?

I agree with everything you've said, so the reason I quoted a couple sentences was to nitpick a single point. Even if that point isn't very important to the overall picture.

They said that SCH had a “lack of healing tools” compared to the other two healers, which I disagreed with, personally. Indomitability is probably one of the most overpowered oGCD heals between any of the three healers—especially after its potency was buffed in 4.0—and it comes at very little cost to the SCH to use it. I’d say its probably up there with AST’s Earthly Star, if not slightly better because of the shorter CD. Now, 5.0 SCH seems to be having issues with overhealing just to dump Aetherflow and not overcap on it, which is not good. Not to mention the new Sacred Soil is completely busted and craps all over the remnants of AST’s CU. So they’ve now gone too far in the other direction.

WHM’s “burst healing” is not a valued utility because this game does not call for it. An advantage is not an advantage if it is not useful. The other two can heal just as well as a WHM can, which was my point. The individual I was responding to was acting as if this was not the case—and this is not the first time I have seen such a mindset.

Originally Posted by Ftail

Agreed. To add onto that the oGCD healing allows for higher DPS. Which explains why WHM wins on the target dummy parser, but loses to everyone in actual boss fights. Those lost DPS spells spent on healing GCD, just can't compete with being able to weave DPS into your heals.

It also does not help that WHM suffers a lot from it’s lack of mobility compared to the other two healers. The increase in movement in Alphascape only helped AST beat WHM into the ground as the prog healer—this was in addition to the 1.5s cast time they got in 4.3 and the instant application of things like CU in 4.4. WHM also cannot effectively weave what oGCD heals it has without clipping its Stone IVs, which is another advantage both AST and SCH have over it.


EDIT because Daily Post limit again:

Originally Posted by Ftail

Now you are nitpicking the definition of a word instead of admitting you made a mistake.

I’m only repeating what you said. You were the one who called the advantage useless. How can it be an advantage if it is useless? No need to sound so hostile.

Originally Posted by Ftail

I'm not going to speak for AST, but at least for SCH it has a lower HPS than WHM and that's a fact. The fact that WHM's extra HPS is not needed and SCH can get through all the savage tier raids having lower HPS, doesn't mean the WHM HPS advantage doesn't exist. Even if that advantage is completely useless.

Originally Posted by Ftail

SCH does not have the same HPS as a WHM. Period.

You were also the one who replied to me just to nitpick a single statement, so I don’t think you can really have a leg to stand on by saying I’m “nitpicking” a definition. It’s not a nitpick—it’s a simple statement of fact. How can an advantage be an advantage when it is labeled useless? That’s the exact opposite of what an advantage is.

SCHs can heal just fine, and can easily keep up with the healing a WHM would need to do in relevant content. WHM’s healing is not an advantage, which was the premise set forth in the post I replied to. Again, no need to sound so hostile. It’s almost as if you’re looking to have an argument right now, and I’m not particularly interested. Thank you, though.

Originally Posted by Ftail

Also I agree with everything you've stated except for this, i just wanted to point this out. You people have a nice day gunna log onto FFXIV before the moogle event ends!

Still seems to me that you were just looking for an argument given your tone in this post. Not going to lie.

Originally Posted by Ftail

My intent was not to sound hostile, I apologize if I offended you.

You’re mistaken to think I’m offended. Replying to arguments with counter arguments =/= offended. It’s called discourse.

Originally Posted by Ftail

However if you look above I said I made a mistake. I didn't want to get into an argument about semantics. Please drop it.

I corrected a single mistake you made, I'm sorry you took offense to being corrected. I hope you can forgive me.

You can also just stop replying, but you were the one who started this conversation. And you continue to reply to it now. That said, considering you have already resulting to condescension and sarcasm, I don’t think we can continue to have any sort of conversation that is meaningful.


For the record, I looked at HPS percentiles for the Ultimates on Everyone’s Favorite Website, which would probably be the best test of healing that this game currently offers. SCH is not behind WHM by any significant margin—at a lot of the percentiles, they are fairly close to one another. AST is actually below SCH.