Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

**Cheremia** · 06-23-2017 04:11 AM

I didn't hit lvl 70 as my whm because I get kicked but SE, did you realize...
That whms let people die now because they try to spam cure 1/2 to get lillies for their skills and don't use regen? It was in The Aetheromechanical research facility or whatever, i got tethered by the boss and was the only one attacking it, so i got constant damage. I died because the WHM was busy trying to get Lillies on the tank, i wouldn't have died if they would have casted Medica 2 and regen. Or even a Medica. Or EVEN a cure 1 in my direction but nope, busy with generating Lillies on minimal damage on the tank and tunnelvisioning everything else.
They did medica 2 like... 2 times afterwards though.

Thanks for making a system that should "help" but make the healer focus on spamming cure 1/2 when you lose MINIMAL hp and then they're busy with aoe damage... with healing it with Cure1/2 for an off cooldown, use it and keep spamming.
"if i heal a lot with cure 2 i can use assize more, that's enough as an aoe heal. My Regens would work against me getting lillies"

I don't like this new world order where Whms don't regen when everybody gets damage...

**Wanzer** · 06-23-2017 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Cheremia

I don't like this new world order where Whms don't regen when everybody gets damage...

As much as I don't like the Lilies, it wasn't because of this mechanic... You just met a very bad whm. ^^;
We don't need to force Lilies procs, especially since it's not a vital mechanic (barely a little bonus). So there is still no reason to not use our regens, especially if we are dps'ing in the same time.

**AlphaSonic** · 06-23-2017 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Wanzer

As much as I don't like the Lilies, it wasn't because of this mechanic... You just met a very bad whm. ^^;
We don't need to force Lilies procs, especially since it's not a vital mechanic (barely a little bonus). So there is still no reason to not use our regens, especially if we are dps'ing in the same time.

It's counterintuitive the fact that you need to ignore a mechanic built into the class to be a good WHM.

**Tridus** · 06-23-2017 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

It's counterintuitive the fact that you need to ignore a mechanic built into the class to be a good WHM.

Pretty nice as a newbie trap, though. The biggest mistake a WHM can make is to go fishing for lillies and PI stacks instead of just doing what works, and the game gives you a pretty UI that encourages you to do exactly that... for lilies at least.

**GrizzlyTank** · 06-23-2017 04:29 AM

Over 300 pages of hysteria...

**Reiryuu** · 06-23-2017 02:02 PM

I'm going to write my final thoughts here.
I don't know if we're going to make a new thread for lvl 70 feedback or what but...

Long story short: I feel like an overglorified healbot. Yes, yes, I know "Heal" is in the role title I should expect to heal. That's not what I mean. The damage changes, the crazy new mechanics, the stupid new lily mechanic, lack of any mitigation type abilities, etc make it very hard for me to do anything but heal in many situations. It is far worse than it was leveling up in Heavensward and in the initial Heavensward endgame. Plus... everything that I had that wasn't a heal or damaging spell that I could cast on party members was taken away from me. Which wasn't much, I'll grant you that, but it gave me the breathing room needed to do other things even if that breathing room was 3~5 seconds. If you were trying to get people to feel more comfortable adding DPS as a healer, which you claim to have in a recent interview, you made a grave, grave mistake in that regard for white mages. It's even worse in lower level dungeons (50 roulette) where we don't have access to spells like Assize and Tetra.

When Stormblood hit, the one thing I wanted from WHM was a few new abilities to buff the party so I could do something besides just damage and heal. What I got was no buffs and being forced into healing far more and having less breathing room for doing other things. It's just not fun. I'm having more fun and feeling more potent on my 60 AST than my 70 WHM in the lower level content and the AST is just going to get better. But make no mistake. I do NOT want to see AST nerfed. I just want to see WHM get the same attention that AST did and have good, solid tools to mitigate damage and provide some utility to my party.

The lack of love that went into the "pure healer vision" of white mage is painfully obvious. Even more so if you've tried RDM which was obviously created with a lot of love and consideration. Playing the job feels good, it's a hell of a lot of fun, and everything just works so well together. The WHM lily system not only isn't fun, it's not rewarding, and you can totally ignore it. In fact, fishing for lilies may cause you to spend more MP than you should in a given situation.

What white mage has begun to feel like is you're out of ideas. What do we give WHM this patch guys? More Heals. More Stones. Sounds good. But no... it doesn't sound good. How would you like to have plain white rice and only plain white rice for every meal for the next 2 years? Doesn't sound very appealing does it? Then why are you giving us the same types of spells to use? And not only that, spells that only cover the most basic function of a healer?

Thin Air is nice. But it emphasizes one point: It encourages spamming spells in a quick time frame which rewards casting the same spell in quick succession usually with presence of mind up since that helps you get more spells out. Is this the sort of thing we're really supposed to be encouraged to do? Whether it be Holy (which would have its stun effect spoiled from the spam) or spamming cures... that's not exactly game play that I feel should be encouraged. And heaven forbid you actually design mechanics where spamming cure 3/Medica with PoM and thin air or something of the like is actually required.

Stone IV: Seriously? Am I hitting things with minecraft mountains now? Not only does it look ugly as hell, do you know how much you have to spam it just to kill something 64+? The same effect over and over and over... I know, ASTS have it just as bad with Malefic III with lower potency, but man... I'd rather have an upgrade to Holy to be honest. Stone III looked better =/

Divine Benison is... okay, I guess? You have to jump through more hoops to cast it, and it's on a cooldown, and it eats your lilies. It just seems like a slighly more powerful instant cast single target stoneskin that costs too many resources be it time or opportunity for what it gives you. The fact that this is a level 66 spell when stoneskin was 34 is just a slap in the face and the fact that NPC healers (Sylphie, the healers in Azim Steppes, etc.) STILL CAST STONESKIN is just salt in the wound. It's better than nothing, but I still go with my assessment that stoneskin was the better skill.

Plenary Indulgence:
This spell goes against everything your new combat mechanics and UI elements were supposed to get rid of. It's a heal that doesn't heal anyone who hasn't got a stack of a gimmic that is only given via one of two healing spells (out of the NINE we have) 20% of the time and only lasts for 30 seconds. Was someone sick or asleep when you had the meeting on what the new UI elements and job skills were supposed to do? For people who have terrible luck with RNG like I do, this spell may as well not even be there because it's unreliable and, in most situations, not even available to use.

The spell would work so much better if it was an AoE 300-ish potency heal that *gave* three confessions and one of such confessions would be consumed upon taking incoming damage to reduce said damage by 10% or so. Give it a cooldown, make it cost all our lilies... maybe even have it to where it gives 1 confession per lily consumed? I dunno, I'm just really dubious to getting *another* spell that just heals. I'm tired of getting heals.

**Risvertasashi** · 06-23-2017 03:42 PM

Feedback after reaching level 70 and running through extreme content:

- Lilies are a noninteractive system. Could turn off the lilies gauge and it wouldn't change anything.
- PI/Confession is an extremely low impact system. You can use it for marginal extra free healing, or completely ignore it, the impact on the fight/mp management/etc isn't significant one way or another.
- Thin Air is amazing. Used right, it's very high impact and frees generous amounts of MP for other purposes.
- Divine Benison is not worth hotbar space.
- WHM MP management feels like it is in a good place, overall. Plays very much like Heavensward... which isn't necessarily a good thing considering there's supposed to be 2 new systems added since then.

**Vircon** · 06-23-2017 11:24 PM

Warning: Load of text ahead!

I'm sure my words will likely go unnoticed but I'll just type this just to rant. Okay so after officially getting my WHM up to level 70 I think it's time for me to insert my input on all of the changes done to WHM.

Divine Seal becoming Largesse: Why the nerf? Like it's not bad enough that we have to rebuy our own ability you had to nerf the potency and CD for us too. DS was one of the best oGCDs the WHM had and part of the reason for their high healing output. At least give the WHM a trait that allows them to have Largesse with the same traits as DS.

General changes to WHM movelist: Assize down to 60 seconds and gives the same potency to both enemies and party members. Love it! Benediction down to 180 seconds. Love it! Losing free Medica and Overcure. Not really that fussed.

Lily system: It has potential but currently it is very much flawed. First why limit the Lily procs to just Cure I and Cure II? Considering a good WHM should be relying on Regens/AoE heals/Tetra as a first priority over Cure I/II shouldn't those be able to proc Lilies as well. Second you'd have to gain 3 Lilies to really make the CD reduction worthwhile. Even then I feel the CD should be higher. Even if you have to reduce the proc rates for Cure I/II having a Lily potentially proc off a Regen/AoE/Tetra/Bene would make the system flow so much better.

Thin Air: Love it! Combining this with Presence of Mind adds a lot of speed to a WHM's HPS/DPS while giving them a free refresh that's not tied to Lucid Dreaming. Between this, Assize's CD reduction, and Lucid Dreaming's extra tick you've successfully solved the WHM's MP issues so I commend you all for this.

Stone IV: Eh. It's Stone IV. Not much to say here.

Divine Benison: A stronger Stoneskin that's instant and oGCD with only a 30 second recast? Nice! Okay great we've just gained that nice mitigation move that we've wanted for so long! Between this and Stoneskin this should help our mitigation game by quite a bit. Oh wait it's tied to the Lily system and we need at least 1 Lily to use it. Okay still not bad. We can still combine this with Stones- wait we're losing Stoneskin too? Not even to Role Actions it's entirely gone for good? Why?! Seriously though all we needed was a bit of mitigation and utility and you give us this while taking away what we had. Stoneskin may not have been good post-3.0 but it was far from useless. It was by far the most reliable source of mitigation we had since E4E is RNG based and Virus was limited to physical attacks. So while we have Divine Benison now let's look at the issues we have with it over Stoneskin.

1. We learn it so late. We originally learned Stoneskin at 34. We're learning Divine Benison at level 66. That's a whole 32 levels difference. In between that time WHMs have to deal with various tankbusters and other stuff that made Stoneskin worth using. Now we don't have access to anything reliable enough to mitigate any damage until then.

2. It's tied to the Lily system which is tied to RNG/potential overhealing. So not only are you potentially spending more MP to use it unless you have Thin Air/Freecure/are lucky but you'd also have to save said stack just for the Divine Benison because no matter what oGCD heal you use you're losing all of your stacks instantly and you can't use it at all. . Same thing with Divine Benison. If you use that on a party member you're using up all of your stacks instantly. Lame.

3. It's duration is much shorter that Stoneskin. The good thing about Stoneskin was that you could potentially cast it and do other things considering how long it lasts. With Divine Benison you actually have to time it with the hit like you would with a SCH/AST or else it'l just fall off before the hit.

Secret of the Lily II: lol. Due to the low proc rate and the low reward I can guarantee you that no one will notice that.

Plenary Indulgence: Yay! More RNG! The concept sounds good on paper. The more you heal, the more powerful the move becomes. The issue lies in the fact that party members must have at least 1 Confession Stack in order to get the heal which defeats the purpose considering not only will you rarely use Cure I/II on a party member but the duration is also so low that you'd have to be lucky to get a Confession stack on more than 2 people within those 30 seconds to make it worthwhile. As it currently is right now it's pretty much a weaker and more unreliable version of Tetra just for the tank.

Overall I love what you did for the MP management issue that the WHM has. I hate the fact that you've locked a good amount of the WHM's new gameplay behind RNG. I hate the fact that you've killed what very little mitigation we had. Finally I hate the fact that WHM still lacks utility that even SCH has some of. Seriously it doesn't have to be enough to step on the toes of the AST/SCH(not like they haven't already) but at least give something that makes it so bring the WHM provides some benefit other than best sustained and burst DPS because AST brings utility and better heals than both healers as we speak and SCH still brings way more mitigation than WHM despite the nerfs. Also a personal opinion of mine I think Excogitation from the SCH would be a move better suited for the WHM instead of the SCH. Just saying.

Anywho onto my suggestions.

Changes to the WHM Lily System.

Change 1: The Lily system exists to reduce the CD of the WHM's pre-level 60 oGCDs while adding oGCDs post-level 60
that can only be used with Lilies. The CD reduction for all WHM pre-level 60 oGCDs will be a flat 30% while consuming 1 Lily.

Divine Benison: Uses 1 Lily for use now and does not use up remaining Lilies.

Planetary Indulgence: Now relies on the Lily system instead of Confession stacks. Will heal everyone as well. Requires at least
1 Lily for use. Will automatically consume all Lilies upon use. Longer CD now. Healing Potency increases with the number of Lily stacks.

1 Lily = 400 Potency
2 Lilies = 500 Potency
3 Lilies= 600 Potency

Change 2: Lilies are now used as a power up of sorts. The controller will decide on how many Lilies they wish to consume to
power up certain moves. Powering up some moves will potentially increase the CD/MP cost of said move however.

Terra Blessing: Consumes a Lily to power up certain actions. No CD until Lilies are used. oGCD. 0 MP consumed. CD determined by number of Lilies used on the last move. 1 Lily = 20 seconds. 2 Lilies = 40 second. 3 Lilies = 60 seconds.

Raise

1 Lily = Restores target's MP/TP to 25 percent. Cost of base MP needed increased by 10 percent
2 Lilies = Restores target's MP/TP to 25 percent and comes back with no weakness gained. Cost of base MP needed increased by 15 percent.
3 Lilies = Restores target's HP/MP/TP to 50 percent with no weakness gained. Cost of base MP needed increased by 25%

Presence of Mind
1 Lily = Extended duration.
2 Lilies = You can pass the base version of it to 1 party member.
3 Lilies = Base version is passed to all nearby party members as well as the user. CD increased to 210 seconds.

Benediction

1 Lily = No delay
2 Lilies = No delay + target's MP/TP is restored by 50 percent. CD increased to 240 seconds
3 Lilies = No delay + target's MP/TP is restored by 50 percent + target is immune to most damage for 5 seconds.
CD increased to 300 seconds

Asylum

1 Lily = Duration is increased to 30 seconds
2 Lilies = Duration is increased to 30 second + potency increased to 150
3 Lilies = Duration is increased to 30 seconds + potency increased to 150 + 10% mitigation. CD increased to 180 seconds.

Assize
1 Lily = CD is reduced by 20 seconds.
2 Lilies = CD is reduced by 20 seconds and 15 percent of MP is restored instead.
3 Lilies = 20 percent of MP is restored and healing/damage potency becomes 400. CD increased to 120 seconds.

Tetragrammation
1 Lily = Reduces damage on the target by 10 percent for 10 seconds
2 Lilies = Reduces damage on the target by 15 percent for 10 seconds. CD increased to 90 seconds.
3 Lilies = Potency is increased to 900. Reduces damage on the target by 15 percent for 15 seconds.
CD increased to 150 seconds.

Divine Benison(Requires 1 Lily for use)
1 Lily = Provides the target with a shield equaling 15% of their max HP.
2 Lilies = Provides the target with a shield equaling 20% of their max HP. CD increased to 60 seconds.
3 Lilies = Provides the party with a shield equaling 15% of their max HP. CD increased to 120 seconds.

Plenary Indulgence(Requires 1 Lily for use. Targets all nearby party members. Base CD increased to 60 seconds)

1 Lily = 400 Potency heal.
2 Lilies = 500 Potency heal.
3 Lilies = 650 Potency heal. CD increased to 90 seconds.

For both I would change the proc rates for gaining lilies. Any form of GCD heals have a chance to proc for gaining a Lily.

Cure: 35 percent
Cure II: 50 percent
Cure III: 50 percent per target
Medica: 20 percent per target
Medica II heal: 20 percent per target
Regen: 10 percent per tick
Medica II regen: 5 percent per tick

I would also change Secret of the Lily II trait as well. This trait would apply to both changes.

Secret of the Lily II: Automatically gain 1 Lily per minute after gaining aggro the enemy. Time is cumulative so this will be active
in dungeons as well.

I'd sooner see change number 1 get used by SE since it takes their system and expands on it but I'd like change number 2 since it adds a bit of utility to the WHM that they desperately need.

**IndoX** · 06-23-2017 11:35 PM

Honestly PI would be fine if confessions were a buff to yourself only and did AoE healing based on the amount of confessions you have. The proc rate could stay the same and the cooldown increased slightly.

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