Thread: Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

Originally Posted by Sebazy

Back onto the topic with the thread: At the end of the day, WHM is simply not meta, nothing more, nothing less. PLD in A12S is a better example of a class that is an outright hinderance (You typically run out of cooldowns by inceptions, not really an issue at 270 with echo, but at 230 without, it was problematic to say the least). Whilst a WHM might not bring a bottle to the party like AST does, it certainly isn't stopping the show either.

It's true that WHMs can clear all content available, no doubt about it. I think most people can agree with that, even those complaining about WHM's current state. Individually speaking, White Mage IS good, it can handle everything pretty well other than some MP issues if you are DPS'ing a lot. The problem though is when you add SCH and specially AST into the mix, the discrepancy is so big that it hurts. AST is so broken that I have to laugh. More than enough healing output for every piece of content with the extremely broken Balance card on top. Sometimes I like to think that Sophia (Goddess of Balance/Equilibrium) disapproves AST, because definitely there is nothing balanced about that card.

The main concern here is not if White Mages will be able to clear Omega or not, I'm sure they will. The problem is that AST is so broken that it negatively affects White Mages, our reputation is bad and it's getting worse, with or without reason. Unfortunately, like it or not, most people will follow the meta. You can't expect everyone to be enlightened or to have patience to play with something subpar. It got to the point where I feel uncomfortable joining PF groups as WHM, I feel like most people would rather have a below-average AST than a good WHM in their groups. You can argue that this is a blessing in disguise because those people are idiots and I agree, but this means more time looking for a decent PF that doesn't have WHM locked out and this is bad. We can't ignore that there is also GOOD players that only follows the meta, even if not needed.

So even though we need more information about the job, I think the concern is valid. Even aesthetically speaking WHM's new skills seems underwhelming in comparison to AST.

Originally Posted by Sebazy

But I can't help but feel that all the cries of 'RIP WHM' and so forth do very little for this communities credibility on these matters when the job is actively getting played and doing just fine at every level of the game despite what this forum would have you believe.

I'm starting to really hate the word viable...

Yes, WHM can clear all content. But the power gap between WHM and AST/SVH is ridiculous. At this point, you're just purposely holding others back by going WHM. Less damage, less utility, less mitigation. The only thing you bring is Cure III, which saw 0 use in all of Creator.

Originally Posted by Eothas

. You can't expect everyone to be enlightened or to have patience to play with something subpar. It got to the point where I feel uncomfortable joining PF groups as WHM, I feel like most people would rather have a below-average AST than a good WHM in their groups. .

I feel 100% the exact same way. WHM can clear all content, but it feels like you're handicapping your party. Why bring WHM when you can bring something that can get the healing job done just as well while also benefitting the party in other ways. It just feels like you're holding back the rest of your group for no reason.

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

... WHM can clear all content, but it feels like you're handicapping your party. Why bring WHM when you can bring something that can get the healing job done just as well while also benefitting the party in other ways. It just feels like you're holding back the rest of your group for no reason.

+1 While I feel OK playing a WHM in 4 man content (mainly due to the number of AoE pulls), I feel guilty playing a WHM in even normal raids (8 or 24 man), as beyond healing (which AST and SCH do equally well enough), I have literally nothing to contribute*... and if it remains the same in 4.0, as much as I love the simplicity of WHM (and Holy), I can't help but feel that I'm going to have to switch to AST or SCH as the main healing class I play.

* Mediocre DPS notwithstanding, as both AST and SCH offer a similar amount, and as let’s be honest, any amount of Healer DPS pales in comparison to what a proper DPS class and / or 'Balance' offers.

Originally Posted by Sebazy

Progression raiders will figure out and settle on an optimal meta irrespective of how marginal the gains are and the sheep will follow it as gospel.

Maybe, but the issue we have at the moment is that the 'meta' (with regards to certain classes at least) is 100% correct... i.e. you can't point to WHM and say they have anything siginificant over AST; you can't point to MNK and say their personal DPS is worth dropping a NIN/DRG/MCH for; you can't point to PLD and do anything but laugh (am mostly happy with 4.0 PLD buffs btw)... so yes, while their will always be a 'meta', there should also always be an alternative... i.e. you should be able to point to WHM and say, they may not be 'meta' but they do have <significant advantage> over AST and SCH.

Well AST major buffs when 3.4 came out probably contributed more to AST's ascent than the fight mechanics.

Originally Posted by Acidblood

you should be able to point to WHM and say, they may not be 'meta' but they do have <significant advantage> over AST and SCH.

And that's all I want. Don't need WHM to be meta, don't need them to be near mandatory like SCH. I just want them to be competitive. Right now, they offer absolutely nothing completely unique to them like both other healers do. In general, pure healing isn't a "unique" identity. It just does more of the same. I just really hope this is not the case in 4.0 as well. They really need something powerful and unique to call their own.

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

And that's all I want. Don't need WHM to be meta, don't need them to be near mandatory like SCH. I just want them to be competitive. Right now, they offer absolutely nothing completely unique to them like both other healers do. In general, pure healing isn't a "unique" identity. It just does more of the same. I just really hope this is not the case in 4.0 as well. They really need something powerful and unique to call their own.

Sure they do Assize. I would like to see more abilities like that for the white Mage.