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  1. 06-04-2017 11:32 AM #1611
    Exiled_Tonberry
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    Character
    Sharl Llyntine
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Zolvolt View Post
    At least with Benison you can use it as an emergency absorb mid hit "good for something like the missile hits on a1s" or as an emergency "oh god he's super low, he needs something now!" which I mean, isn't that good when you have bene and tetra. Its kind of like they took stone skin and made it way easier to use and more flexible (albeit with a cd)
    It's funny because even in a case like that, you'll probably blow your lilies on Tetra/Asylum/Assize before the mechanic comes, and what did all that saving up and not using your own oGCDs get you? A 15% barrier. Just ask the damn AST to slap on their spammable 300% barrier instead, spare you the embarrassment.
    (8)
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  2. 06-04-2017 11:36 AM #1612
    Zolvolt
    Player
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    Gridania
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    Character
    Zolmation Volt
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Where do you guys see you need lillies to cast divine benison? It benefits from them the same way assize and other spells do but nowhere does it say you need them to cast it.
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  3. 06-04-2017 11:36 AM #1613
    Caduagm
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    Character
    Vincent Highwindus
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Keridwyn View Post
    So did WHM, it rolls into Aero II now.
    Aero was most of the time(unless you had to move or use a ogcd after it will probably be the same with Aero 2 now) useless for whm, has lower potency than stone 3.
    Had better potency than broil for scholar and depending on your spell speed was worth it for ast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keridwyn View Post
    DPS isn't the raid utility you think it is.
    Well if you are talking about the only other so it is the shields/mitigation.
    Whm got a RNG one. As I said before AST lost disable. The Bole and Collective Unconscious which the first one is a RNG and if we want an AoE of that we have to wait at least 60 secs (Royal Road and Spread) and the second one each 90 seconds.
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  4. 06-04-2017 11:38 AM #1614
    Caduagm
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    Character
    Vincent Highwindus
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Keridwyn
    As it stands we have to drop Cleric Stance to take Swiftcast so to get any more of the Role abilities we give up either Protect, Esuna, Lucid Dream, or Largess. All of those abilities were base parts of our kit at one time. AST went half and half with us on Lucid Dreaming so they only have to spend one Role ability to get back what they gave up to it.
    Ok, so I guess you won't get Cleric Stance since you said by your own that ''Damage is not utility''. You're saying about Esuna, bust AST lost Exalted Detriment and Sch lost Leeches. Ast lost a tick of MP refresh from Lucid Dreaming and WHM won 2. Sch had Aetherflow nerfed by half.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keridwyn
    We saw the buffs, we also saw AST's buffs. Like the buff to AST's sects that lets it completely outheal our 'pure healer' selves.
    Yes we saw the buffs, we saw that GCDs Cures got buffed (probably because of Divine Seal nerf). And about AST we're completly unsure since lots of tooltips have different translations.
    (0)
    Last edited by Caduagm; 06-04-2017 at 11:54 AM.
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  5. 06-04-2017 11:44 AM #1615
    Exiled_Tonberry
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    Sharl Llyntine
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Zolvolt View Post
    Where do you guys see you need lillies to cast divine benison? It benefits from them the same way assize and other spells do but nowhere does it say you need them to cast it.
    You need at least one lily to cast Bension. It's literally grayed out if we don't have any.
    Unless you're referring to the AOE heal, Plenary, in which case you need a confession stack, which is also gated behind RNG. See the problem?
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  6. 06-04-2017 11:47 AM #1616
    Keridwyn
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    Character
    Keridwyn Maeve
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Caduagm View Post
    Aero was most of the time(unless you had to move or use a ogcd after it will probably be the same with Aero 2 now) useless for whm, has lower potency than stone 3.
    Had better potency than broil for scholar and depending on your spell speed was worth it for ast.
    We still used it, most especially on bosses. Believe it or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caduagm View Post
    Well if you are talking about the only other so it is the shields/mitigation.
    Wrong. We could possibly grant Reflect, Haste, or even Auto-Raise as buffs of some kind. We could have our own unique buffs, we don't need to take shields but speaking of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caduagm View Post
    Whm got a RNG one. As I said before AST lost disable. The Bole and Collective Unconscious which the first one is a RNG and if we want an AoE of that we have to wait at least 60 secs (Royal Road and Spread) and the second one each 90 seconds.
    We CANNOT spread our RNG shield even if we wanted to. Your RNG shield sticks around for a minimum 30secs at 20% , and can possibly be spread to everyone to take 10%.

    I'm sorry about disable, you can have it back when I get my Stoneskin II back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caduagm View Post
    Ok, so I guess you won't get Cleric Stance since you said by your own Damage is not utility.
    I said it wasn't the utility you think it is, it's not. Nobody is going to think WHM's dps is better than AST's party buffs and SCH's party buffs. We CANNOT afford to take Cleric Stance because we need the Role slot for Swiftcast or E4E.


    Quote Originally Posted by Caduagm View Post
    You're saying about Esuna, bust AST lost Exalted Detriment and Sch lost Leeches. Ast lost a tick of MP refresh from Lucid Dreaming and WHM won 2. Sch had Aetherflow nerfed by half.
    The only time I mentioned Esuna I mentioned head to give it up to get a different role ability. Oh, I see what you're saying, my apologies you need to spend TWO role slots to get back what you lost. That's still three less than the WHM five. So again you come out on top in Role ability utility.


    Quote Originally Posted by Caduagm View Post
    Yes we saw the buffs, we saw that GCDs Cures got buffed (probably because of Divine Seal nerf). And about AST we're completly unsure since lots of tooltips have different translations
    It's either 10% or 15%. According to other posts in this thread and others that still means AST outheal WHM.

    Look, I know you want WHM deleted and our abilities split between SCH and AST but there's still life in this corpse and you don't get to loot it just yet.

    I'd love to continue this discussion but I am now post capped. I leave it to others to keep pointing things out to you.
    (8)
    Last edited by Keridwyn; 06-04-2017 at 12:39 PM.
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  7. 06-04-2017 11:51 AM #1617
    Caduagm
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    Character
    Vincent Highwindus
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry View Post
    We're not the strongest healer anymore
    Assize (now 60 secs or lower), Asylum and Cure 3 (attention: 550 potency being a gcd) say the opposite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry View Post
    we don't have party synergy
    Well,now you have with the shields and the stacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry View Post
    we have one healer CD while the others have two
    Well if you're talking about the Increasing Healing Power CDs so you're right, although, as I said, Asylum, Assize and Cure3.
    Also, Synastry lost its 20% heal buff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry View Post
    and every one of our new healing spells in SB are gated around RNG
    Deal with it, Scholars already have it if they want crit Adlo Deployment Tatics.
    (1)
    Last edited by Caduagm; 06-04-2017 at 11:57 AM.
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  8. 06-04-2017 11:54 AM #1618
    Zolvolt
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    Gridania
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    Character
    Zolmation Volt
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Additionally, I'd like to discuss the usefullness of the current CDR numbers.

    Using our max lillies of 20% on our longest ability Assize(90 sec cd) you get 17 or 18 seconds cd on cast.
    On a 60 second is 12 seconds.

    Even at our best cd reduction I can't help but feel that its just not that useful in general.

    *feel free to correct my numbers if I made a math mistake somehow*
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  9. 06-04-2017 11:55 AM #1619
    Zolvolt
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    Zolmation Volt
    World
    Sargatanas
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    Blue Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry View Post
    You need at least one lily to cast Bension. It's literally grayed out if we don't have any.
    Unless you're referring to the AOE heal, Plenary, in which case you need a confession stack, which is also gated behind RNG. See the problem?
    https://images.discordapp.net/.eJwFw...6N7jnsQkTINGD4

    So this tooltip is a lie? Q_Q
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  10. 06-04-2017 11:55 AM #1620
    jovination
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    limsa lomisa
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    Character
    Virsta Hikouwe
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Here is my feedback on the changes. I understand people disliking the changes but I figure I would give my thoughts for consideration as well.

    I like them, to go further I am going to talk about the state WHM is in atm and then move into how the changes effect them at least from my point of view.

    Before I go on, these are my own findings and my method of play, I am not trying to change the overall outlook on WHM, just my personal experience.

    Regen leads to a net loss of 378 mp
    Cure leads to a net loss of 11 mp
    (note due to post size has to remove all my math and observations here)

    So Cure overall can be considered a more efficient spell.

    Now to talk about the changes, the Lilies reward you for using Cure / Cure II, so you heal normally, they proc. And can be saved for dangerous moments and help WHM do what it does best, burst healing.

    This is my play style though, its subject to opinion. However I have never had mp issues this way while healing efficiently.
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