Thread: Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

In addition, WHM being created as an 'easy' healer to play also creates this potential mockery of players playing this class...

Ppthbbbbbb!

Don't take my word for it...

Sadly we have a highly uniformed community which is excessively opinionated?? Lets take a step back and consider a few FACTS.





FACTS:

SE has access to all our game memory files (the real fflogs) and are able to from statistics on just about anything we can imagine, to include: "which skills are used most, when they are used, and how efficiently skills are used!"


FACTS:

While we are not SE, we too, ffxiv community, have access to a database with 100's of thousands of entries from all kinds of players, doing all kinds of things, whereby we can mimic SE's ability (on a smaller scale) to form stats on a multitude of things, to include: "which skills are used most, when they are used, and how efficiently skills are used!"




Section 1: The Proposition

For example: throughout our current tier of Creator Savage fflogs provides a stats that spans the entirety of the relevant patches(from when it first came out even into echos).

One of the stats in particular I want to mention is: Fight HPS

HTML Code:

https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/12#region=1&metric=fighthps&timespan=1000

Fight HPS- is the combined NON OVERHEALING, heals the entire party provides per second over the complete duration of a Fight.However this stat doesn't take into consideration mitigation (tank direct dmg reducing CDs and other direct dmg reducing CDs: rampart, Red mind, virus, e4e, etc). Nevertheless it gives us an idea of what each fight demands from the party in total heals per second.


Okay Jay, where are you going with this...

Well one of the points I'm trying to make is: since we can tell which fights require more raid HPS and which fights require lower HPS, we can dig deeper into each kind of fight (low & high HPS fights) and find out:

1. How the healing requirements are being addressed?
2. What skills are being used the most to address the healing requirements?
3. Which skills are they using most efficiently?
4. Which skills are often in excess?

WARNING:- the definition of "efficiency" referenced in this post is a measure of (effective potency/max potency). This definition of efficiency is NOT a reference to potency/MP NOR is it a reference to potency/gcd. IT IS A STRICT COMPARISON of a skill's actual output compared to its potential max output. For example if you use a regen on a tank that dies 6 seconds after you applied that regen he would have only received 300 potency out of the max 1050 (assuming those ticks weren't overheals....); that would make the Potency efficiency of that regen on that tank 300/1050; This is an example of the definition of the "efficiency" being reference here. (this warning was brought to you by the number trolls that ensue and insisted that the word "efficiency" can ONLY be use to refer to their ratios of choice and no other ratios..... :P)




Since we're on a WHM forum, we're most interested in "How does main-healer WHM handles such-and-such fights;"





Section 2: The Analysis


The highest HPS Fight throughout all of Savage, throughout all of progression into echos, and upwards of 75% HPS percentiles, IS FAUST Z For those of you that play, you KNOW why this requires the highest HPS(faust hits very hard and hits very fast).

If you filter the logs for all Faust Z encounters, then filter for HPS, and lastly filter for WHM; you'll be able to gauge how the highest HPS WHMs address this fight, down through the way to the lowest HPS WHMs answers to this fight are. (note: in fights where the off healer is a sch, the way WHM deals with healing will be skewed b/c EMBRACE replaces a ton of cures at ZERO GCD cost to the SCH...keep this in mind!!!)

Here is one example of a pre-echo WHM's high HPS without a SCH off healer

HTML Code:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/zXbgNJBdFf32cK7m#fight=1&type=healing&source=8

THINGS TO NOTICE

• 4 regens overhealed 30% of the time
• 6 cure II overhealed 6% of the time
• 4 cure III overhealed 42% of the time
• 6 cure I over healed 17% of the time
• 0 medica II (for this one example)

From these stats you can tell which skills were most used, which skills were most efficiently used, and which skill were most in excess. Granted this is just ONE EXAMPLE, but I'll leave the homework for you to do and see if this one example is indicative of the majority of examples.



Now, two of the lowest HPS required fights in all of Savage are Refurbisher and Cruise Chaser. Here are examples of each, following the same format as my last listing.

Refurbisher

HTML Code:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/8HDytYpwNb7JfPQx#fight=33&type=healing&source=753

THINGS TO NOTICE

• 17 regens overhealed 20% of the time
• 20 cure II overhealed 6% of the time
• 1 cure III overhealed 4% of the time
• 44 cure I overhealed 2% of the time
• 7 medica II overhealed 52% of the time

Cruise Chaser

HTML Code:

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/NQbWLv97MypqTkfY#fight=9&type=healing&source=129

THINGS TO NOTICE

• 25 regens overhealed 24% of the time
• 9 cure II overhealed 32% of the time
• 1 cure III overhealed 4% of the time
• 47 cure I overhealed 12% of the time
• 12 medica II overhealed 20% of the time

Section 3: The Moral of the Story...

What this wall of text and data highly suggest is.... your most used skills in raid (non-echo) are your CURE I .... & CURE II! The most efficiently used skills in raid (non-echo) are your CURE I .... & CURE II! So... if SE wanted to make a RNG system that procs off of the frequent use of your toolset and ENCOURAGES efficient play-style what skills would fit better than your CURE I .... & CURE II!???




(this is an example of an informed opinion....how about we do more of this, and less of b*tching and moaning without data to back it up? just a thought...)



P.S. A valid concern has been brought up that these parses listed and the other that can be found using the set parameters given, are not a close representation of how the nominal 2 EQUALLY HEALING party compositions would behave. The opposing argument suggests that if a search were done where the WHM's HPS, more or less, matches the co-healers HPS (assuming still the co healer isn't a SCH, but embrace cost no players GCDs), that the WHM distribution of skills used would be completely different than the SOLO HEALING WHM data listed above.

I won't do the whole post over but I did go bk to Fight HPS, found out what the avg Fight HPS is for Faust Z, divided that Fight HPS in half, then I went into the Faust Z parse listings and sorted by HPS and click thru the pages until I land to where the WHM's HPS = Faust Z HPS/2; then I looked at the skill distributions and found no SIGNIFICANT skill distribution that deviated from the solo healing WHM's HPS rotation .

here is a link to Faust Z HPS where both healers are about the same but the WHM is clearly the main healer (these are about 60/40 or 55/45 Whm/co-healer).

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/13#b...ic=hps&page=97

Originally Posted by javid

Stuff.

You left out a very important factor. Using https://www.fflogs.com/reports/zXbgN...aling&source=8

3 Medica healed 104.8k which is 24933 per GCD used.
4 Regen healed 97.5k which is 24375 per GCD used.
6 CureII healed 73.3k which is 12216 per GCD used.
6 CureI healed 38k which is 6333 per GCD used.

CureI is 1/4 as efficient as Medica/Regen and CureII is 1/2 as efficient as Medica/Regen.

Addendum:
3 Medica casts cost 3711 mana which is 28 hp per 1 mana.
4 Regen casts cost 2472 mana which is 39 hp per 1 mana.
6 CureII casts cost 5304 mana which is 14 hp per 1 mana.
6 CureI casts cost 2652 mana which is 14 hp per 1 mana.

Conclusion: Time efficiency: Medica/Regen/CureII/CureI and Mana efficiency: Regen/Medica/CureII/CureI

Originally Posted by joannaluttrell

You left out a very important factor. Using https://www.fflogs.com/reports/zXbgN...aling&source=8

3 Medica healed 104.8k which is 24933 per GCD used.
4 Regen healed 97.5k which is 24375 per GCD used.
6 CureII healed 73.3k which is 12216 per GCD used.
6 CureI healed 38k which is 6333 per GCD used.

CureI is 1/4 as efficient as Medica/Regen and CureII is 1/2 as efficient as Medica/Regen.

Addendum:
3 Medica casts cost 3711 mana which is 28 hp per 1 mana.
4 Regen casts cost 2472 mana which is 39 hp per 1 mana.
6 CureII casts cost 5304 mana which is 14 hp per 1 mana.
6 CureI casts cost 2652 mana which is 14 hp per 1 mana.

Conclusion: Time efficiency: Medica/Regen/CureII/CureI and Mana efficiency: Regen/Medica/CureII/CureI

your post didn't address any of the questions I supposed.

How did what you say demonstrate a different result in which skills are most frequented??
How did what you say demonstrate a different result in which skills most efficient in their function? ( Of course a a medica II will net more potency/gcd*mp than a cure...b/c they have two different functions! But of the different functions & capabilities which is doing their respective function optimally (where the word optimal refers to the skill's max potential potency?)
How did what you say a demonstrate a different result in which skills were most in excess at their function & capability (effective potency/max potency)?

The Post wasn't attempting to suggest an alternative way of healing the fight more efficiently, nor changing the functionality of each skill (regen, meds, cures, etc). The Post was simply to show, given the specific functions that each of our healing spells accomplishes the ones MOST FREQUENCTLY used, and the ones most used to its own full potential & functions, were (and are) Cure I and Cure II!

So clearly you and all the ppl up voting didnt understand, the stats and interpretation I made of them are valid.... It's not a matter of opinion.

Originally Posted by javid

, the stats and interpretation I made of them are valid.... It's not a matter of opinion.

Originally Posted by javid

Section 3: The Moral of the Story...

What this wall of text and data highly suggest is.... your most used skills in raid (non-echo) are your CURE I .... & CURE II! The most efficiently used skills in raid (non-echo) are your CURE I .... & CURE II! So... if SE wanted to make a RNG system that procs off of the frequent use of your toolset and ENCOURAGES efficient play-style what skills would fit better than your CURE I .... & CURE II!???

Cure I and Cure II are the least efficient for both mana and time. They are NOT the "most efficiently used skills". You can keep claiming they are all you want, the math says otherwise. Period.

How did what you say demonstrate a different result in which skills are most frequented??

Irrelevant. Nothing I said claimed your # of casts was wrong.

How did what you say demonstrate a different result in which skills most efficient in their function?

Their function is to heal, so that is exactly what I demonstrated.

How did what you say a demonstrate a different result in which skills were most in excess at their function & capability?

Pineapple, stick, water, dog. The words are english but combined they mean nothing... much like the words above.

Originally Posted by joannaluttrell

Cure I and Cure II are the least efficient for both mana and time. They are NOT the "most efficiently used skills". You can keep claiming they are all you want, the math says otherwise. Period.

you are still losted........... where in my post do I say cures are most efficient in TIME? OR MP?????? YOU'RE ASSSUUUMMMINGGGGGGGG the definition of "efficiency"...

While I didn't make clear my definition of "efficiency" in the first post.... NEVERRR DID I SUGGEST EFFICIENT WAS IN TIME NOR IN MP. if you read the second post, in response to the nay sayers, you'll find MY DEFINTION of "efficiency", which isn't based on time nor mp...

The math is in front of you and you're choosing to ignore it in order to make an invalid point.....AGAIN....REREAD MY POST.....NEVVVEEEEERRRRR do I suggest cures are more TIME efficient nor do I suggest MP efficient.................I make plain that Cure I and Cure II are the most POTENCY efficiently used! MEANING of all the skills we use, the ones that actually contribute the max potency available that particular skill; CURE I AND CURE II are at the top of the charts.....those are facts.....