Thread: Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

Now that we have regens flowing, and gaining lilies, the next problem is what the lillies do. 3 lilies give a 20% Cooldown reduction? No. That is not the WHM thing, that belongs to the Astralogian, please leave it there. Instead, think about what WHM's need, or want.


Now that we have lilies, what to do with them? Well, using them to power our spells to do more useful stuff than power our cooldowns, how about if they enhanced the skill being used, or other skills. For example: What if using 3 lillies on benediction made Cure II an insta-free cast (kinda like firestarter proc on BLM). This is insanely useful as you can heal double tank buster leaving your co-healer able to do other things. Instead of cooldowns, which isn't very useful for a WHM at all, boost the abilities that we use off lilies. This way, using the lilies will power spells, but also hinder the MP reduction we worked so hard to achieve, and have to rebuild, so it makes gaining and using a trade-off.

What if lilies reduced the MP cost of our skills instead? 1 lily = 5% MP reduction, 2 lilies = 10% and 3 lilies = 15% (or 20% dealers choice). This makes gaining lillies desirable, because WHMs already suffer MP problems, even with Largeese, we will still be wanting for MP. With MP reduction, we won't be killing ourselves for playing our class to the fullest.

Sorry, I could not post this all in one chunk

Originally Posted by Zolvolt

Where do you guys see you need lillies to cast divine benison? It benefits from them the same way assize and other spells do but nowhere does it say you need them to cast it.

You need at least one lily to cast Bension. It's literally grayed out if we don't have any.
Unless you're referring to the AOE heal, Plenary, in which case you need a confession stack, which is also gated behind RNG. See the problem?

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

You need at least one lily to cast Bension. It's literally grayed out if we don't have any.
Unless you're referring to the AOE heal, Plenary, in which case you need a confession stack, which is also gated behind RNG. See the problem?

https://images.discordapp.net/.eJwFw...6N7jnsQkTINGD4

So this tooltip is a lie? Q_Q

Additionally, I'd like to discuss the usefullness of the current CDR numbers.

Using our max lillies of 20% on our longest ability Assize(90 sec cd) you get 17 or 18 seconds cd on cast.
On a 60 second is 12 seconds.

Even at our best cd reduction I can't help but feel that its just not that useful in general.

*feel free to correct my numbers if I made a math mistake somehow*

Here is my feedback on the changes. I understand people disliking the changes but I figure I would give my thoughts for consideration as well.

I like them, to go further I am going to talk about the state WHM is in atm and then move into how the changes effect them at least from my point of view.

Before I go on, these are my own findings and my method of play, I am not trying to change the overall outlook on WHM, just my personal experience.

Regen leads to a net loss of 378 mp
Cure leads to a net loss of 11 mp
(note due to post size has to remove all my math and observations here)

So Cure overall can be considered a more efficient spell.

Now to talk about the changes, the Lilies reward you for using Cure / Cure II, so you heal normally, they proc. And can be saved for dangerous moments and help WHM do what it does best, burst healing.

This is my play style though, its subject to opinion. However I have never had mp issues this way while healing efficiently.

Originally Posted by Metsonm

Just to clarify what we mean by regen being more efficient:

Cure is 400 potency at a cost of 442MP. 1 gcd. So that's 0.948 potency per mp
Regen, all in, is 1050 potency at a cost of 619MP on 1gcd. Overall 1.696 potency per mp.

That's not far off twice as efficient.

For regen to match the efficieny of Cure it would have to be reapplied after 4 ticks rather than the full 7.

Factors are involved, how efficiently can you maintain that potency?

My math had to get cut out due to 1000 character limits (though its simple to do yourself with a striking dummy to emulate combat mana regen). My main point is that when I play "optimally" (Regen > Cure) I have mana issues, when I use Regen more or less as a quick cast-and-forget and just focus on using Cure, I don't (even with moderate DPS). Updates to WHM seem to reward that style. Also the whole mp regen point is just because I see that being the primary point of avoiding Cure / Cure II.

Originally Posted by jovination

Factors are involved, how efficiently can you maintain that potency?

My math had to get cut out due to 1000 character limits (though its simple to do yourself with a striking dummy to emulate combat mana regen). My main point is that when I play "optimally" (Regen > Cure) I have mana issues, when I use Regen more or less as a quick cast-and-forget and just focus on using Cure, I don't (even with moderate DPS). Updates to WHM seem to reward that style. Also the whole mp regen point is just because I see that being the primary point of avoiding Cure / Cure II.

I would suggest that it varies somewhat by situation. Suitable application of Regen is undeniably more efficient than Cure casting, but we also have times when a Regen will cause prolonged overheal or otherwise be undesirable. We also can't forget to mention abilities like Asylum and Tetra used in lieu of a Cure to enhance MP efficiency and cut GCDs.

It's easy to construe from the conversations around here that everyone hates Cure spells and that no self-respecting WHM ever uses them, but of course that would be an exaggeration. It's just that the frequency of Cure/Cure II casting suddenly became an important point of discussion when Lilies and Confession stacks were announced to be tied to these two spells alone. Lilies not seeming to give a great benefit also compounds the issue.

Originally Posted by jovination

Factors are involved, how efficiently can you maintain that potency?

Pretty easily? I just don't refresh it until after 12 seconds have passed, ideally not until it's about to fall off or has fallen off. You have to actually try and lower the potency of regen.

Originally Posted by jovination

My math had to get cut out due to 1000 character limits (though its simple to do yourself with a striking dummy to emulate combat mana regen). My main point is that when I play "optimally" (Regen > Cure) I have mana issues, when I use Regen more or less as a quick cast-and-forget and just focus on using Cure, I don't (even with moderate DPS). Updates to WHM seem to reward that style. Also the whole mp regen point is just because I see that being the primary point of avoiding Cure / Cure II.

The idea of the regen use over Cure to save MP despite costing more is that it heals for almost twice as much p/MP. Even looking at raw potencies that's 2.6x stronger. So you're casting Cure twice to get the same benefit as Regen, resulting in not only more MP spent to heal the tank for the same (being generous, it's actually half a Cure cast less) amount as regen, but also more GCDs spent on healing for the same amount.

Unless the target needs that health NOW OMG HE'S GONNA DIE then regen is stronger, cheaper and frees up another GCD that can be spent on something else.

Though I'm very interested to see your maths because I'm curious how you came to these conclusions. You can make a post and edit it afterwards to work around the 1000 character limit.