Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

**Niroken** · 06-04-2017 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by 13unny

Simply I think you act like WHM now 100% revolves around lilies when they do not! I mean were you complaining how there was RNG chance that Cure 1 can give a free Cure 2 before? Sure you were not. Now you simply have another proc that goes a long with the skill.

Making a system that you largely ignore isn't that great of design. Especially when you look at all the other jobs and see how their UI interacts with their class.

I find it hard to see all the other jobs and then look at what WHM gets and go "Well that looks about the same amount of thought and effort that went into making this".

**13unny** · 06-04-2017 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by Niroken

Making a system that you largely ignore isn't that great of design. Especially when you look at all the other jobs and see how their UI interacts with their class.

I find it hard to see all the other jobs and then look at what WHM gets and go "Well that looks about the same amount of thought and effort that went into making this".

What about Paladin their shield oath isn't super great and just really there! The system isn't like Goon having to keep blood of the dragon up or BLM's needing Enochian to stay up! ASTRO got nothing for new system, just a UI for cards now lol. Yet Lilies has to be 100% rework?

**Vyvian** · 06-04-2017 04:01 AM

I think the X-Class thing really isn't a big deal. It more evens out than not it feels like.
AST/SCH would've needed to take Protect before, so now we're all on the same page.
All 3 classes lost cleanse spells, so that's a wash to all 3.
All 3 classes had their MP regen taken away or nerfed, so Lucid Dreaming is going to all 3, and is a wash.
Cleric Stance will be the first skill to go if any other skill is useful, since it at best increases dps by 1.25% on a class that averages low dps in a raid encounter. Speedrunners will take it once the content is on farm.
WHM already took E4E, while SCH lost it. AST gains a choice because they could not choose this skill before.
Largesse is really the only slot I feel something was lost. DS shined in my opinion because it's CD was only 60 seconds. This skill seems to have drawn numbers from Synastry rather than DS, but since they do exactly the same thing other than numbers, they were consolidated.

**IhzaMhaskova** · 06-04-2017 04:08 AM

THIS IS WHY THEY SHOULD'VE SHOWED THIS STUFF MONTHS AGO!

At this point there is 0% chance this gets fixed before SB launches but if we had known at the time of the last patch how things were changing they would've had plenty of time to tweak from feedback!

**IhzaMhaskova** · 06-04-2017 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by 13unny

What about Paladin their shield oath isn't super great and just really there! The system isn't like Goon having to keep blood of the dragon up or BLM's needing Enochian to stay up! ASTRO got nothing for new system, just a UI for cards now lol. Yet Lilies has to be 100% rework?

Paladins Shield Oath isn't useful?

Do you even play this game?

How is a tanks tank stance not useful?!

**13unny** · 06-04-2017 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by IhzaMhaskova

Paladins Shield Oath isn't useful?

Do you even play this game?

How is a tanks tank stance not useful?!

Oh I said that bad, I was talking about their new gauge. 0-100 they gain noting really from it. It allows them now to use certain skills just like lilies! Even now Sheltron takes that gauge! That is more hurtful then what lilies are! Yet you see everyone wanting to switch over to them xD

**Mahkii** · 06-04-2017 04:22 AM

I will make this really simple. Serious raiders frown at WHM because its contribution to raid damage is not on par with The Balance. If you fix that, you fix everything. You can be creative with how you solve this problem:

You could give WHM the ability to increase the parties damage through a buff like The Balance. This could be a flat damage %, this could be attack rate with tp cost compensation, or this could be critical chance rate.
You could give WHM an anti-cleric stance where they choose not to do damage and it increases everyone else's damage.
You could make WHM the Samurai of healing so that we prog the entire raid tier start to finish with WHM solo healing and an extra Samurai in the party.

You have options, and that's the single one problem that we raiders were expecting to be solved for WHM.

**Vyvian** · 06-04-2017 04:27 AM

The names are less important than the functions.
All 3 are taking an MP Cooldown.
I expect in most situations all 3 are taking the healing buff.
All 3 should take Swiftcast.
In solo, all 3 will take Protect.
All will take Esuna because they all lost their cleanse spell, if the fight requires cleanse.
You have a few leftovers that replace your unneeded slots (1 healer protect, maybe no esuna slot): E4E, Cleric, new Surecast, Rescue.

**Saraphin** · 06-04-2017 04:38 AM

I think MANY can agree that AST made out well (the new AOE, whine all you want, it's an amazing ability, even if you have to wait. your oGCD starts ticking the second you put it down, so waiting 10s? you still have it in under a minute and it's potency far outstrips what many healers theoretically can do now. the shields they get are insane 300% really? is the AST-baby trying to take everything away from SCH just like it's heals are now as potent as a WHM? just asking.) in Stormblood.

Did SCH DPS get gutted, yes. we can all see that. Did all classes lose something to the pool? yes. that was wrong. we didn't need those skills ripped (ANY of us).

AST-baby is now (and numbers have shown) just as good as SCH and WHM depending on their sect. From what i've seen in the media releases, there will be NOTHING that is going to require as much healing as the WHM will need to get lily stacks. They also now get a Skill that Does all their draw skills WITHOUT overwriting anything they're holding.

That said...SCH got gutted of it's DPS (one of the main reasons most brought a SCH along for 8/24man content) and WHM got...it's entire kit yanked away. The lily system, by numbers, has been shown to be D.O.A. over the course of things from 1.0 to now, WHMs don't use Cure 1/2 after they've become comfortable with the class. we try to DPS to help, use our oGCDs to heal up and use Cure 1/2 when necessary, but over 10 minutes, cure 1/2 is used...typically (Other than Baelsar's Wall...Evil, Evil Archers there.) at a very low rate.

I'm not saying Thin Air is not a good Skill, the CD is rather large on it. For those that say "well you should use it for raising" ...No, if people are dying that badly, that means that if it's a 1/2/5 or 2/2/4 party comp, the other healer was not helping keep people up OR if it's in a 4 man, the party got in over their heads and that means that the Raise will be interrupted because we're the last one standing. Thin Air Raise Spam will be, most likely, used situationally in an 8/24 man scenario and almost never in a 4man one (that i can foresee at this point) and if there is a Red Mage (who also has access, along with SMN and BLM to Lucid Dream/SoS) they will be able to raise far faster than a WHM with the Dual Cast system, it's been shown that they can raise 4 people in under 20 seconds. Red Mages, I commend you on this. Most of time, I will guess about 80% of the WHMs that currently play, will be using that for DPS.

So, to be blunt, not only did we lose a good portion of our Toolkit, but we're also giving it to our Caster Partners. Not saying this is a bad thing, but again, it was given to someone outside of healers (it will help SMN/RDM, i'm sure).

Now, moving along, Losing SS 1/2 for a 60s cooldown one, that appears to be gated behind Lilies...based on RNG. As many have said, Stoneskin was a situational use. When someone died, a Stoneskin could help them take less damage from Arena wide damage that was coming up, or they did add a bit of help in a12 (normal, i've not cleared a12s) during the Tank LB phase. I've run it on WHM, with a PLD and a SCH. the tank LB, Divine Shield, Stoneskin and Galvanize made it so we took a few...HUNDRED in dmg, instead of a massive blow. We tested to see the difference that no Stoneskin would make and it's a good chunk of HP (1-3K depending on HP of target).

Now, someone on the JP forums did the math and it boils down (with all class specifics) that WHM with the "changes" is 2/3 of a SCH, who's barely on par with an AST. Even then, the AST has been buffed enough that if you look, you've got threads in this forum where there at some AST Mains going "WHY!? we didn't need this!! WHY!?!?!" (paraphrased, obviously).

Change things. that's the only thing i can say. SE, Dev Team, you've got over 150 pages of input from not only WHM mains, but AST mains, SCH mains and MANY agree on three things: WHM was gutted, and you've half gutted SCH, while AST as gotten buffed, and buffed and is pushing out both SCH and WHM in everything.

**13unny** · 06-04-2017 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by Saraphin

I think MANY can agree that AST made out well (the new AOE, whine all you want, it's an amazing ability, even if you have to wait. your oGCD starts ticking the second you put it down, so waiting 10s? you still have it in under a minute and it's potency far outstrips what many healers theoretically can do now. the shields they get are insane 300% really? is the AST-baby trying to take everything away from SCH just like it's heals are now as potent as a WHM? just asking.) in Stormblood.

Did SCH DPS get gutted, yes. we can all see that. Did all classes lose something to the pool? yes. that was wrong. we didn't need those skills ripped (ANY of us).
(going to edit, give me a moment)

What if timed wrong by a second? Could heal for 0! What if no follow up AoE? Can WHM not just use Asylum to top everyone off? It is a good skill but people act like it is the best thing ever lol.

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