Tank Role actions

[Starkbeaumont]

Rampart >>> if it works like it does now, it's a must have

Low Blow >>> if it doesn't do dmg anymore (and losing the drk trait) it's not useful for most raid fights

Provoke >>> must have for tank swaps

Convalescence >>> still a must have

Anticipation >>> no clue what it is, maybe a forced parry or evade

Reprisal >>> no more parry req. just an ocd makes it must have for raids

Awareness >>> depends mostly on the fight if it works like it does atm

Interject >>> we will probably see more stuff that needs to be silenced, so a good one

Ultimatum >>> I don't really see the point in this one

Shirk >>> no clue what it does

[Ultimatecalibur]

Rampart >>> if it works like it does now, it's a must have

Not necessarily. Will be a good baseline selection, but if 5 others would be better for a fight then it might get dropped.

Low Blow >>> if it doesn't do dmg anymore (and losing the drk trait) it's not useful for most raid fights

It will be useful when the tank wants to interrupt a target oGCD with a stun. DpS are also having their stuns go to the role list.

Provoke >>> must have for tank swaps

True, and selection will be based on whether or not a fight requires a single target tank swap.

Convalescence >>> still a must have

Same situation as Rampart. Good baseline but fights might make other options better.

Anticipation >>> no clue what it is, maybe a forced parry or evade

Various possibilities.

Reprisal >>> no more parry req. just an ocd makes it must have for raids

Only if there is a Partybuster/tankbuster on a 60s timer (30s if both tanks need it) and also depends on what the other roles bring also.

Awareness >>> depends mostly on the fight if it works like it does atm

Possibly more fights with Auto-crit phases like Diablos Hollow.

Interject >>> we will probably see more stuff that needs to be silenced, so a good one

True. SE limited silencing due to inability to guarantee comps would have a Silence.

Ultimatum >>> I don't really see the point in this one

Multiple possible uses I can see. Group of adds spawn with a preset amount of enmity greater than what flash/overpower/unleash can generate not targeting a tank. Tanks need to tank swap between a single target and a multiple target group.

Shirk >>> no clue what it does

Theory is that it is an enmity dump. Might be key together with Ultimatium for group swaps.

[Acidblood]

...

Except I thought the whole idea of this 'cross-role' system was to make sure everybody always had the tools they needed to play their role (i.e. no having to level PLD to get Provoke)... however, by putting so many basic skills in there (and limiting it to 5/10 at a time) it pretty much ensures that no-body will ever have all the tools they will situationally need... and I'm not sure about you, but I am no fan of having to swap out skills based on content, which means they’ve either made everything less than savage raids very boring mechanic wise, or there are going to be a lot of 'you need to swap in X skill for this fight' conversations (wasn't the skill barrier supposed to be getting lowered? and now they want casuals to know what skill they need to have equiped for X boss?), and in my book neither is a particularly good outcome.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Except I thought the whole idea of this 'cross-role' system was to make sure everybody always had the tools they needed to play their role (i.e. no having to level PLD to get Provoke)...

It was a change so that jobs could always have access to the tools no matter what classes were leveled not always have them. I've run into far to many Dark Knight and a fair few Warriors who had not leveled Gladiator to 22 for Provoke when running Mentor roulette. You can not complete Ultima's Bane and several other extreme trials if the other tank can not even equip Provoke. This change is intended to prevent content from being impossible to complete due to failure to level a certain class or not bringing the correct job(s).

It is better for the game if a player can just swap which abilities are active rather than have a party fall apart due to duty finder messing things up.

however, by putting so many basic skills in there (and limiting it to 5/10 at a time) it pretty much ensures that no-body will ever have all the tools they will situationally need...

I disagree.

It should be fairly easy for the playerbase and casual players to come up with a "good in general" ability set.

From what we know so far, this looks to be a good set for doing content in general:

• Low blow
• Interject
• Either Provoke or Ultimatum depending on player preference
• Rampart
• Convalescence

Awareness, Reprisal, Anticipation and Shirk will likely be niche enough than most casual players might not see the situations they would be used in. Core players will, on the other hand, run into those situation and then swap the more niche abilities in as needed.

and I'm not sure about you, but I am no fan of having to swap out skills based on content, which means they’ve either made everything less than savage raids very boring mechanic wise, or there are going to be a lot of 'you need to swap in X skill for this fight' conversations (wasn't the skill barrier supposed to be getting lowered? and now they want casuals to know what skill they need to have equiped for X boss?), and in my book neither is a particularly good outcome.

I'd argue neither outcome will happen in casual content once a good general set spreads.

Extreme Primals and Savage raids may end up with players having "Who has which skills to handle which mechanics" conversation but those already happen in that level of content. More often than not it requires a job change rather than a skill swap to get the needed abilities right now.

[YitharV2]

however, by putting so many basic skills in there (and limiting it to 5/10 at a time) it pretty much ensures that no-body will ever have all the tools they will situationally need...

I'm not a fan of swapping on the fly, but I somewhat disagree. Ultimatecalibur provided a good list of skills to take.

This is probably what I'd take for 4mans on Warrior. I dislike that stun is cross role, but it's not required.

Rampart
Convalescence
Reprisal
Provoke
Awareness

I'd swap out Reprisal for Interject if it's needed for a mechanic. Honestly I don't use Conv that much (since it's useless to pop it at the wrong times), so I may take it out sometimes.

[javid]

snip

That's not a accurate statement; We can't know if any situation will demand all 10/10 cross class abilities. If ever there was such a situation it will demand either the tanks split the cross class and that it never be a 4 man content. If SE purposely made content that DEMANDS all 10/10 cross class abilities AND we tanks could not equipped them all that would be poor design...give SE more credit than that.

[Cabalabob]

that would be poor design...give SE more credit than that.

Two words.
Gordias savage. :P

[javid]

Two words.
Gordias savage. :P

Gordias wasn't a poor design!! It was Hard as hell, but it wasn't a poor design. I personally would like if the difficulty would return to gordias ONCE ppl become acclimated with the new system.

Edit

I like the dps check of gordias. I loveeed the CC (bind, heavy, silence etc) uses of midas, and I like the randomness of Creator. A rdm fight that has utility & dps checks is a fun test of personal ability and group cohesion.

[Brannigan]

Gordias wasn't a poor design

Off topic, but Royal Pentacle was trash design. Considering engine limitations, so was the pass mechanic in Living Liquid. Also how Living Liquid has like 7 instant-wipe conditions before the final part of the fight. Also Gordias 2 was boring.