Leveling: PotD or MSQ?

[HyoMinPark]

A quick follow-up. She started at 32, at the level 27 MSQ dungeon. Only doing MSQ. At level 40, she needed to hit PotD to make MSQ level requirements. Again at 42. Again at 44. So, it appears some supplimentation is mandatory, but it's going well.

I'm glad that things are going well. :3 Hopefully she'll reach end-game soon, and can begin truly playing with her crafters and gatherers. :3

Don't let her get too discouraged or burnt out during the 2.x MSQs. There are a bunch of them (over 100 MSQs before you reach Heavensward content), but it will probably take her less time if she isn't particularly interested in reading/watching cutscenes, or doing all the level 50 dungeons that you have to do via Sidequests.

I think at the status-quo of the game, the best way is:
- go ahead with MSQ until you can unlock Potd
- use potd to level your main to 30, and the alt class required for job change to 15
- job change and again potd until 60 + kinna weapon
- back the MSQ and complete it, along with all the missed job quests to unlock skills

You need notice some "must-have" xclass skills require you level other classes as well. One good example is get swiftcast for healers. All potd-able, 'tho.

Note: leveling tanks, potd vs duties havent that great difference, but potd gives you the 255 weapon and this cannot be overlooked at.

I really have to disagree with this post, and I am not aware of this, in any way, being an accepted status quo of this game, nor would I recommend it for any player.

Supplementing experience with PotD is fine; the MSQ does have several lulls where you need additional levels before you can unlock the next quest, and using PotD, if you don't feel like running dungeons, is fine for doing that. Same for leveling alternative classes to level 15 or for relative cross-class skills (THM to 26 is just painful most of the time).
However, running PotD until you're level 60, and then deciding to do the majority of the MSQ and your job quests? That is a lot of wasted MSQ experience, which only gets buffed more and more as the game expands. I do not recommend throwing that away.

PotD, with regards to some classes/jobs, is extremely different compared to actual dungeons. I think, in a way, it can apply to all jobs, but mostly this applies to tanks and healers. Incoming and outgoing damage in PotD compared to dungeons varies significantly, and leveling a tank in PotD especially, I feel, doesn't prepare you for content once you reach max level. Same thing for healers. With the current speed-run mentality surrounding PotD, I also do not feel like it provides a good learning environment for those who are not the quickest of learners. Leveling up the old-fashioned way, and getting your skills in a more paced manner, I feel allows you to learn how to better use them, if you choose not to supplement with reading guides and tips online.

Also, PotD monsters do not have positionals, so DPS jobs with positional requirements (MNK, HW DRG, NIN) do not learn the importance of how positionals can affect your damage. And a lot of mechanics present in dungeons or 8-mans or 24-mans, are not really present in PotD, and if they are, only very briefly during the boss fights, which are usually just cheesed to high heaven anyways.

Aside from getting a Padjali/Kinna weapon, you will also be sacrificing gear, which is needed for progression. If a player doesn't have the means to get crafted gear (friends, gil, etc.), then dungeon gear is the easiest way to gear up. I have met a lot of "PotD levelers" with gear so bad and so under-leveled that it makes some dungeon runs unbearable. And I know that they have to be PotD levelers, because they sport their Padjali/Kinna weapons in a dungeon like The Aery or The Vault, while still wearing a mixture of i90 or Unaugmented Poetics gear. When you're having to heal a tank like this, it is NOT fun.

Perhaps I am just old-fashioned, but I would not recommend to any new or serious player to use PotD as their sole way of leveling.

[LalaRu]

I really have to disagree with this post, and I am not aware of this, in any way, being an accepted status quo of this game, nor would I recommend it for any player.

Accepted or not, it happens now on daily basis.

Of all my jobs, I had potd'd just NIN, SCH, and now WAR, everything else leveled old-school-way, not by choice but simply because potd did not were in game. But still am for it, because a number of reasons:

- Your weapon is the most importante piece of armor of all the game, and potd gives you a i255 weapon, and if your skills aren't top (raiding, ex primals), you'll never get that level of weapon anywhere;
- if you return to MSQ after you are 60 with that weapon, all and everything is quite more easy and speedy to complete;
- about learning, if someone whants reach 60 first and learn his class after that, it is his own choice. If you don't like that, you just don't do it. You have plenty of time for learn while doing the MSQ and all the related duties. The only whining I can see on forums is because all those people complain they want all and everyone at raiding level even when doing sastasha;
- the low gear is just an excuse. NPC will sell you i150 gear when you are 60. Crappy gear as you want, but no reasons to keep gear from your level 30. Who does, is wrong.

[HyoMinPark]

Accepted or not, it happens now on daily basis.

Still doesn't mean it's the best method, and I don't really recommend recommending it to new players.

Of all my jobs, I had potd'd just NIN, SCH, and now WAR, everything else leveled old-school-way, not by choice but simply because potd did not were in game. But still am for it, because a number of reasons:

I have also PotD some jobs. However, I do not play them nearly as well as I think I would if I had chose to level them in a more paced/different manner. Anecdotal, but so is your experience.

- Your weapon is the most importante piece of armor of all the game, and potd gives you a i255 weapon, and if your skills aren't top (raiding, ex primals), you'll never get that level of weapon anywhere;

Weapon may be important, but if you're a tank with a i255 Kinna and i150 NQ gear, healer swill not like you too much. Especially when you try those Big Daddy pulls that better geared tanks do. Ultimately, all gear, I feel, can be equally important for some jobs, tanks especially. I have healed tanks with i215 body pieces in Dun Scaith. Their 260 sharpened relic isn't going to save them from Diabolos Hollow's auto-crits and tankbusters, no matter how many cooldowns they try to pop.

Also, you can get ilvl 255 weapons from Sophia Ex, which is probably the easiest and most forgiving of the Heavensward primals. So saying "You can't find a 255 weapon anywhere else" is just false.

- if you return to MSQ after you are 60 with that weapon, all and everything is quite more easy and speedy to complete;

Still wasted experience. A ton of wasted experience. The MSQ, while it may be lengthy, isn't particularly difficult. You can still go through it at the same pace at level if you skip cutscenes than you can breezing through the MSQ at 60. None of the quests or solo instances are so hard that you need to be level 60 with a 255 weapon to complete them (aside from the fact that they sync you down anyways).

- about learning, if someone whants reach 60 first and learn his class after that, it is his own choice. If you don't like that, you just don't do it. You have plenty of time for learn while doing the MSQ and all the related duties. The only whining I can see on forums is because all those people complain they want all and everyone at raiding level even when doing sastasha;

I agree that people who want to learn will do so, and those who don't care to won't. And yes, there are people who expect players to know how to do their jobs. However, most of the "whining" I see on the forums is people complaining about level 60s in Sastasha that still don't understand the very basics of their jobs (using Flash, Overpower, Tomahawk; not healing while in Cleric Stance or spamming Medica unnecessarily, etc.). The rare posts I see about elitists complaining about sprouts or new tanks failing to hold aggro against better-geared DPS are few and far between, and many of us come to the sprouts/newbies defense, not the elitists.

This comment sadly sounds like a bunch of the "you don't pay my sub" comments I see. While that's true, and while PotD-ing to 60 is someone's choice, remember that in DF, you are paired with 3/7/23 other random people. A little consideration for them is always a nice thing to have. Don't just into 24-mans and not have a basic understanding of your job, or level appropriate gear. Because it happens. It happens quite a bit. See the post in the Duty Finder thread with the DRG that was in mostly 270 gear with a level 52 NQ weapon.

- the low gear is just an excuse. NPC will sell you i150 gear when you are 60. Crappy gear as you want, but no reasons to keep gear from your level 30. Who does, is wrong.

And again, see my post about tanks in NQ i150 gear trying to progress through later level 60 dungeons, doing Big Daddy pulls, and healers having to babysit them. People are wrong to keep their poor/older gear, but it still happens.


I'm going to end my responses here, because the thread is veering off-topic, and I would rather not a debate break out in a thread that has been extremely pleasant and friendly thus far. We are both entitled to our opinions, and I just stand by mine that recommending PotD to 60, then MSQ to new players is just not a good idea.

OP, again, glad your wife is progressing smoothly. And I do appreciate the tips on the level lulls in the MSQ so I can know for future reference if someone else asks a similar question to yours. :3

[Kethic]

Thanks for the well wishes. Our MSQ vs PotD logging isn't meticulous, so don't expect extreme precision. :-p

Amusingly, she has no interest in end-game anything. She just wants to be able to putz around the crafting/gathering game, including new content, without dungeons, groups, raids, or dailies. All of this is to unlock access to new areas so she can wander around seamlessly, in an immersive manner. That's all.

Because of this, I think exp efficiency is more valuable than being at the top end of the synced level range. She won't be doing side quests, side dungeons, or running a dungeon more than once. She just won't. I can keep her geared, an archer/bard rotation isn't terribly complex if you're not min/maxing, and it'll all be over soon. And then she can putz in the world, without all the baggage of MMO or FF or anything else.

[Moonlite]

In HW's you will need to do MSQ to open some zones to gather and craft. But clearing every quest in each zone will get you to 60 just before the last zone. As some of them have dungeon XP. I would just do MSQ and then use PoTD to fill the gaps in 2.0msq. As people are right a few times you get a spot where you can't activate next MSQ with out grinding some xp.

[Kethic]

The level 45 MSQ were barely accessible using MSQ experience rewards, and then they immediately required level 46 for the next quests, so some time was spent in PotD. Immediately after that, they require level 49 for Operation Archon, so... yeah. There is a gap from 46 to 49 that needs to be planned around.

[Kethic]

Good news, bad news.

After she hit 49, the MSQ got her about 40% of the way to 50, then dumped another level requirement MSQ quest in the way, this time at 50. So, the MSQ really does leave you experience deficient from 40-50. Additionally, the way it breaks it up, it may be best to grind to high 40's as soon as you hit 39. PotD does make this incredibly fast in comparison to other methods, and if you have HW installed, any exp overshoot is a head start on 50-60.

The good news is that all the content after 2.1 and before 3.x also gives you a head start on 50-60 leveling. She's almost level 51 as she approaches Levi.

[zXr]

I suggest Regional side quests too for at very least the gear upgrades, unless you plan to craft/buy the gear ups yourself, otherwise the MSQ dungeons will be painful.

[Kethic]

MSQ progress is gated behind Hard Mode Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda, which is just... what? Not amused.

[Moonlite]

MSQ progress is gated behind Hard Mode Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda, which is just... what? Not amused.

If you are smn/sch you can solo all the HMs for her. Just need a second person for titan. But did it the other day for someone got gaoled and didn't break the heart. Still had around 4k left on sch. Dps is also more then high enough on sch at i246.