What are the most common reasons people don't dps?

[Vyriah]

They will either listen or they won't and that is out of our control.

This completly apply to telling other players how to play.

I didn't bother to open a new topic about it because I just ended on that subject while answering the actual topic title. This thread is "what are the common reason people don't do DPS", not why they should do it. That's what I am talking about.

My point about this topic is that player will unlikely start doing something if they don't have the intiative of doing it. And they don't have the initiative of doing it for all the reason I already mentionned. Wich I realise could be summed up by a result of the dungeon finder itself, a tool that doesn't make communication between player mandatory. It's really easy to pick-up bad habbits or not to think to deeply about what you're doing if it's working.
It's more likely about theme park player than lazy players.

[Miste]

This completly apply to telling other players how to play.

Okay....?

Doesn't mean we can't try anyway.

You seem to be basically advocating a defeatist point of view that we should all just give up trying to help others because they might not listen.

I mean I also said in that same post that even if they might not listen we can still try:

it is out of our control if SE listens or not. I never said we shouldn't try and I never said you shouldn't try.

It is out of our control if healers listen to the advice to try to DPS, but why does that mean we shouldn't try to give the advice and information anyway?

You want us to give up trying to help healers learn how they can do better at helping themselves and their parties?

Should we all just stop trying to help people do better at their jobs? If some don't want to listen then nothing we can do about those ones, but what about players who appreciate the help?

[Vyriah]

No one here ever advocated to refuse to help players that want help. Why would anyone do that to begin with ?

[Miste]

No one here ever advocated to refuse to help players that want help. Why would anyone do that to begin with ?

Then you aren't articulating your point well enough because that is what I get from your posts.

What point were you trying to make with the statement that "it applies to telling other players how to play" then? They either will listen or they won't...okay, but what does that have to do with what I was saying?

This is why I am saying you have a defeatist point of view and basically saying we shouldn't bother helping people with learning healer and calling it pointless:

"Talking about people who do 0 DPS" isn't gonna make every do DPS.

every 0 DPS healer isn't gonna listen to what you say exactly because you're saying it.

Why bother talking about 0 DPS healers ? Is it gonna solve everything ?

this discussion have no meaning whatsoever.

optimisation of the current healer playstyle is pointless

You have been saying it over and over. You think it is pointless to try to encourage healers to DPS.

That is why I said it seems you would rather people not try to help others learn.

[Chortle]

Boy, this thread sure turned into a dumpster fire

[RopeDrink]

Boy, this thread sure turned into a dumpster fire

If it bugs you, don't waste time throwing turd-fuel on it.

[Chortle]

If it bugs you, don't waste time throwing turd-fuel on it.

Just making an observation. No actual discussion seems to be going on anymore. Each side has made their points, and yet each side continues to spew the same few points over and over never getting anywhere.

It doesn't bug me at all.

[RopeDrink]

So? Discussions don't have to reach a conclusion, much like people don't have to participate if they don't like the fact it's primarily going in circles. Sign-posting it is less constructive than just letting it run its course (as that is at least on topic no matter how repetitive it really is). Someone will throw their hat in one way or another and the talks will flare back. There's really no sense fluffing it with drivel in the meantime (this post included).

[inhaledcorn]

I can somewhat understand if you're a WHM since your exclusive Job mechanic, the lilies and Plenary, aren't generated on damaging skills at all. If you're being a "good" WHM, you don't really get to use these cool parts of your kit, so people have started overhealing just to use them. In this regard, I can understand. I like how these mechanics and UI updates that were introduced in 4.0 were to encourage players to play their job correctly, and while a lot of job succeeded in that front, WHM failed miserably, but I think this may be because of a failure by the developers understanding how the players are playing the game and instead trying to force us to play the game their way. In some ways, yeah, trying to force a certain playstyle does make it so that it's easier to balance because you know what players are doing. But, with WHM, they completely missed the mark since overhealing is bad when you could DPS to help meet DPS checks and/or end an encounter sooner to avoid things going wrong. They should have accounted for the DPSing healers better and didn't.

I'm not saying that overhealing healers shouldn't be allowed to access their full kit, but I am saying that these systems should encourage players to explore the rest of their kit to experiment, learn, and become better overall players.

[Vyriah]

snip

Those are both cherry picked sentences in the middle of more constructed messages and answer to talking about player that aren't even here just to say they'are lazy or incompetent or princesse healer or whatever else. This isn't helping anyone at all.

You're just slapping on my post any meaning that would serve your point.